DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :content-type;
        b=vp16xoOuG1MPRaWYcPAF6ZoG40daKqDzmIY3+k//b6bGi7ZzBGnuMMoBxhoWDaD+V3
         ytDC94s+aG7XPXlkN2ieE32L0TUdoHj4vYeLZsaFfhPebmq65o8WVAa2v7IAGMQ2/gz5
         ly6nsA8h31QNLMLzL0moq7F4XlvRZaMuIXYck=
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <C062863D251C4C0B9696FB71018B7521@AGB>
	 <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:28:20 -0500
Message-ID: <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com>
From: Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
DomainKey-Status: good (testing) 
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09ff794096501f604808aee45
Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org


--00c09ff794096501f604808aee45
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Pete,

          Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I suggested that
9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much.
If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that was to
receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it must be
considerably closer.

         You comment on politics reminds of the old joke:
Q.  Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism?
A.  In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'round !

-- 
73 Warren K2ORS
               WD2XGJ
               WD2XSH/23
               WE2XEB/2
               WE2XGR/1



On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
>   Hi Warren
>>
>> Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit by any
>> means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch.
>> Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a
>> leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside....... I
>> am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the local
>> LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may
>> be a long road that I for one may not travel but at the moment there is
>> enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this
>> debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at about
>> 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz up the
>> road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this
>> continuous beat note running all the time.
>>
>> 73 es GL petefmt
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.com<http://uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wd2xgj@gmail.com>
>> >
>> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
>> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<http://uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
>> >
>> Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below
>> 9kHz?
>>
>>
>>> Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not
>>> extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for
>>> nothing....
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73 Warren K2ORS
>>>               WD2XGJ
>>>               WD2XSH/23
>>>               WE2XEB/2
>>>               WE2XGR/1
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org<http://uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sq5bpf@lipkowski.org>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:
>>>>
>>>> People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM
>>>>> received
>>>>> today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for
>>>>> frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required
>>>>> as
>>>>> there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT
>>>>> Act
>>>>> 2006. [...]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum,
>>>> they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one
>>>> continent
>>>> can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the
>>>> radio
>>>> authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field
>>>> strengths
>>>> (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection
>>>> authority
>>>> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is
>>>> usually
>>>> 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)
>>>>
>>>> sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to
>>>> ask
>>>> at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you
>>>> will
>>>> need a license for that" clause.
>>>>
>>>> if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential
>>>> electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz
>>>> (or
>>>> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated).
>>>> you
>>>> would probably get an entirely different answer :)
>>>>
>>>> VY 73
>>>>
>>>> Jacek / SQ5BPF
>>>>
>>>> ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

--00c09ff794096501f604808aee45
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Pete,<div><br></div><div>=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Yes I guess I engaged in=
 a bit of hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won&#39;t cross the garden=
 wall, but not by much.</div><div>If you reckon that the world record is=
 10km for an amateur and that was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then=
 for a signal to be audible it must be considerably closer.</div>
<div>=A0=A0 =A0 =A0=A0</div><div>=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 You comment on politic=
s reminds of the old joke:=A0</div><div>Q. =A0Do you know the difference=
 between capitalism and communism?</div><div>A. =A0In capitalism its dog=
 eat dog; in communism its the other way &#39;round !</div>
<div><br></div><div>--=A0<br>73 Warren K2ORS<br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0WD2XGJ=A0<br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23<br>=A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2<br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1=
<br><br></div><div>=A0=A0<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 26=
, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:m0fmt@yah=
oo.co.uk">m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0=
" border=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"font:inherit"><br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;padding-left:5px=
;margin-left:5px">
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;p=
adding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>Hi Warren</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit=
 by any means unless you live on John Wayne&#39;s Ranch.<br>Your New Presi=
dent is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a leaf out of=
 our book we&#39;ve been doing it for years... joking aside....... I am no=
t expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the local LF=
 Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may=
 be a long road that I for one=A0may not travel but at the moment there is=
 enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this=
 debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at ab=
out 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX=A0during a quick wi=
z up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with thi=
s continuous beat note running all the time.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>73 es GL petefmt<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>---------------=
-----------------------------------<br>From: &quot;Warren Ziegler&quot; &l=
t;<a title=3D"mailto:wd2xgj@gmail.com  CTRL + Click to follow link" href=
=3D"http://uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dwd2xgj@gmail.com" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">wd2xgj@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>Sent: Thursday=
, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM<br>To: &lt;<a href=3D"http://uk.mc281.mail.yah=
oo.com/mc/compose?to=3Drsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" rel=3D"nofollow" targ=
et=3D"_blank">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k=
Hz?<br><br></div></div></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;p=
adding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>Asking Ofcom for a license or=
 Nov to generate a signal that will not<br>extend past your own garden see=
ms like a lot of trouble for<br>
nothing....<br><br>-- <br>73 Warren K2ORS<br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=
 WD2XGJ<br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23<br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2<br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1<br><br><br>On Thu=
, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski &lt;<a href=3D"http://uk.mc281.=
mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dsq5bpf@lipkowski.org" rel=3D"nofollow" targ=
et=3D"_blank">sq5bpf@lipkowski.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

<blockquote style=3D"border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;p=
adding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn=
 wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;p=
adding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">People may be interested in the rep=
ly from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received<br>today. I asked him what OFCOM&#=
39;s view would be.<br>
</blockquote><br>[...]<br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;p=
adding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>They state that ITU Radio Regs=
 indicate that there is no allocation for<br>frequencies below 9 kHz. Howe=
ver in the UK, a licence would be required as<br>
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
<br>2006. [...]<br></blockquote><br>there is already a very big commercial=
 user of the elf and vlf spectrum,<br>they inject very big power into grou=
nd dipoles. emissions from one continent<br>
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad=
io<br>authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field str=
engths<br>(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection=
 authority<br>
and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual=
ly<br>50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)<br><br>sometimes when dealing with the gov=
erment, the best practice is not to ask<br>at all
 :) even if they agree with you there will always be a &quot;but you will<=
br>need a license for that&quot; clause.<br><br>if you have to ask, ask th=
em if it is their duty to regulate potential<br>electromagnetic wave trans=
mission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or<br>
any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you<=
br>would probably get an entirely different answer :)<br><br>VY 73<br><br>=
Jacek / SQ5BPF<br><br>ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually=
 very nice<br>
</blockquote><br><br></blockquote><br><br><br></div></div></blockquote></d=
iv><br><br><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br>



      </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br><br>
</div>

--00c09ff794096501f604808aee45--