Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.3 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-DCC: : mailn 1480; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by lipkowski.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u1) with ESMTP id v438RPsC009764 for ; Wed, 3 May 2017 10:27:27 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1d5paA-0000G5-K5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 May 2017 09:24:22 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1d5pa9-0000Fw-Q5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 May 2017 09:24:21 +0100 Received: from gmy2-mh810.smtproutes.com ([94.186.192.139]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1d5pa5-00029P-NU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 May 2017 09:24:20 +0100 X-Katharion-ID: 1493799840.69712.gmy2-mh810 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.es ([85.60.35.36]) by gmy2-mh810.smtproutes.com [(94.186.192.139)] with ESMTP via TCP (TLSv1/TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA); 03 May 2017 08:24:00 +0000 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::c40d:8140:d722:5448]) by servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::c40d:8140:d722:5448%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 3 May 2017 10:23:27 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?VIGILANT_Luis_Fern=E1ndez?= To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Thread-Index: AQHSwYvPGRMSdbVf3ESd6lc1832zK6Hds2oAgACLhpWAAVhxgIABGvLAgAAv6QCAAJ2IKP//9AwAgADRU/A= Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 08:23:26 +0000 Message-ID: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD6AEA@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <15bcb183c16-3753-14ba3@webprd-a74.mail.aol.com> Accept-Language: es-ES, en-US Content-Language: es-ES X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.0.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scan-Signature: cc4c8e4475f6ae6fc5ac615bbc2f8e81 Subject: RE: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD6AEAservigilantvigi_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11571 --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD6AEAservigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Markus Thank you again for the detailed explanation To try a decode from Stefan transmission yesterday at 18:00 I have choosen = the file 05022225.txt This should contain the 7.9h FFT from 17:58 to 03:52 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/EbNaut/050222= 25.txt The settings on the SR.txt file contains the corrrected SR of the soundcard= , decimation, FFT lenght and central frequency https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/EbNaut/sr.txt This produces the WAV file with ebnaut_ifft3a correctly But I get Ebnaut crash when opening the file with the decoder. The settings= are: Mode:16K21A CRC:16 Symbol:27 Mensagge lenght:5 Start offset: 0.000 (untill checking the real start time = by Ebnaut) List lenght 20000 Freq offset: 0.1 (for 8270.100) CPUs:1 Phase Step: 30 Have tried to short lest lenght to 200 but it crashes anyway. It is Ebnaut_= rx V0.6 Any idea of what's going on ? Didn't get a problem before with shorter (10 = minutes) FFT files I have got an small trace in the spectrogram at 8270.110 The QRG do not match with Stephan's transmission, but here is the picture https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/EbNaut/May%20= be%20DK7FC%20030517.PNG 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] En nombre de Markus Vester Enviado el: martes, 02 de mayo de 2017 23:37 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Hi Luis, > BTW. What I'm getting from SL is one FFT file 112Kb size every hour as Ma= rkus said > But how can I merge all the files of a 8h transmission like the one your = are running now ? Each of these files contains the data for approx. 8.9 hours. The filename (= and the timestamp, which are the first two numbers in the file) refers to t= he middle of the recording. For example, a file called "05020430.txt" would= be centered on 4:30 UT, and contain all received data from 0.03 to 8:57 UT= . The next one would then be "05020530.txt", covering 1:03 to 9:57, etc. So= the files are largely overlapping. A short transmission could be contained= in more than one file, and a very long one (> 7.9 h) might not be complete= ly covered at all. The easiest way is to select the file whose name is clos= est to the midtime of the EbNaut transmission. Don't let yourself be confused by the file timestamps in Windows Explorer, = which may be one hour later than the end of the recording. The reason is th= at SpecLab closes the "old" export file only immediately before the next on= e will be written. This is also the reason why you cannot delete the latest= file while SL is running, but you can copy it to another folder. Usually the data will have started some time before the announced beginning= of an EbNaut transmission. The EbNaut decoder will show the file start tim= e, and you will then have to calculate and enter the start offset. Best 73, Markus -----Urspr=FCngliche Mitteilung----- Von: VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Di, 2. Mai 2017 22:54 Betreff: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Hi Stefan The grabber is now showing full spectrum from 0-24KHz https://ea5dom.ure.es/grabber/index.html The Rx is not at Benidorm in the high tower. It is in the roof of a two lev= el house on top of a 5m pole But clear out from high obstacles and trees Fortunately no near by AM or LF stations. The strongest station in the firs= t 500KHz is an Algerian LW broadcast at 252Khz which puts -18dBm here in the central carrier The pole is a 50cm x 10mm diameter aluminium rod. Will play with the 10MOhm= resistor and first fet stage with filter. I will also test a different location for the probe. The noise= at MiniWhip rised 20dB, so must get it appart to keep the ear at MF/LF. The power supply is a 12V transformer shar= ed with the MiniWhip Will test another one just for the VLF probe and with better filtering. The= GND of the antenna is separated from mains earth and there is an audio transformer to the PC soundcard >>It is all not easy! I would say it is harder than EME ;-) You can say it truly Stephan. It IS much harder than EME :-) In EME you can run a modest station and the big guns will work you (my case= , for example) In VLF you have to be the big gun and try to target some electrons into mod= est stations with small antennas into a noise storm >>31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz. Sorry, it was a typo. It is 31uHz really. This are the SL settings by Marku= s BTW. What I'm getting from SL is one FFT file 112Kb size every hour as Mark= us said But how can I merge all the files of a 8h transmission like the one your ar= e running now ? Your signal in your grabber looks stronger than the previous transmissions 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] = en nombre de DK7FC [selberdenken@posteo.de] Enviado: martes, 2 de mayo de 2017 14:55 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ? Hi Luis, Am 02.05.2017 10:49, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: I was already running an SL instance showing the first 24KHz in a fast way = to get an idea of what's going on with QRM and known signals It is already included in the grabber at 1 min/pixel. Hour changed to UTC j= ust now https://ea5dom.ure.es/grabber/index.html Yes but it starts at 6 kHz, so not the first 24 kHz ;-) From 0...6 kHz ther= e are also informations which are relevant to evaluate the situation of you= r receiver(site). As you can see, there is a LOT of noise around. What I'm using is your VLF = E-Field probe with the first JFet separated in a 50cm aluminium rod probe and linking to shack with a coax cable https://sites.google.com/site/sub9kh= z/antennas/dk7fc_efield_probe.jpg?attredirects=3D0 Not only the length of the rod, also the height above ground, the effective= height, playes an even bigger role. Sourrounded by trees you miss sensitiv= ity, the lower the frequency is. And on the top of a high tower, the signal= s will be much stronger, with the same rod! If there is a strong local AM transmitter on MF, you may get some interfere= nces, and so on. Thus it is good to see what happens below 6 kHz too. When DLF on 153 kHz has been active here, running 500 kW to a 350m high ant= enna in 40 km distance, i sometimes saw AM components, demodulation stuff o= n VLF, in one of the first versions. So when the antenna is on a high tower= and the signal levels are strong, you may afford a second RC low pass filt= er in front of the first JFET, giving a cleaner spectrum on the lower VLF. = On the other side, with a longer rod (giving more capacity) you may decreas= e the 10 MOhm resistor. This should reduce the noise of the first JFET a bi= t. I just played with all that stuff a week ago when optimising my ULF E field= circuit for 970 Hz. Obviously, no clear trace from your last transmission in the 31mHz spectrog= ram with this Rx conditions 31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz. Are you using an AF isolation transformer between soundcard and antenna? Wh= at type of power supply are you using for the antenna? Is the GND of the an= tenna separated from the mains earth? So, 7Km is an outstanding Dx at this moment. But really challenging I do already have a failed microwave oven to use the transformer. And the a= udio PA too. So you mean to apply the high voltage to the antenna without resonating coil, right ? Yes. Better start with some measurements in the shack, not on the roof :-) Measure or estimate the capacity of your antenna. Switch a fixed C of that = value parallel to the transformer. Use a sine signal generator connected to= the audio PA. Try to find a resonance or check the voltage at 8270 Hz. May= be a normal mains transformer 12V -> 230V will give better results! Maybe y= ou need to add your own primary winding to the transformer. Try to get 1 kV= or so, that should work well. With a mains transformer, 500V may work for = a few hours. If you have a toroidal transformer, use that! You can also switch an external C parallel to the transformer if that helps= to rise the voltage on the desired frequency. Or switch it in series to th= e primary winding. Ah and a resistor, maybe 2 Ohm or so may help to protect= the PA from transients and short cuts (resonances). Nice therm. Don't know if the pipe running down to ground would have any is= sue with this. At the moment 80w at MF didn't show to be harmful But there can be some noise at 8KHz and this would really be an annoying si= de effect if that happens :( The antenna currents will be very low. There will be no unwanted effects, e= xcept maybe some local E field coupling on the roof. The resonating coil for VLF is in the "To-Do" list. Actually found a huge p= lastic (resin) garden flowerpots which are 60cm diameter by 35cm high This can be stacked upside down leaving airgap between them for ventilation= . Just adding one final on top with no coil serves as rain protection of the full arrange. Maybe it's a good idea to start in small steps. With your own monitor you w= ill have some first results. And maybe some of the local EA amateurs can he= lp to reach the next distance step :-) It is all not easy! I would say it is harder than EME ;-) 73, Stefan --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD6AEAservigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Markus
 
Thank you again for the detailed = explanation
 
To try a decode from Stefan trans= mission yesterday at 18:00 I have choosen the file 05022225.txt
This should contain the 7.9h FFT = from 17:58 to 03:52
 
The settings on the SR.txt file c= ontains the corrrected SR of the soundcard, decimation, FFT lenght and cent= ral frequency
https://dl.dropboxus= ercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/EbNaut/sr.txt
 
This produces the WAV file with e= bnaut_ifft3a correctly
But I get Ebnaut crash when openi= ng the file with the decoder. The settings are:
 
Mode:16K21A CRC:16 Symbol:27
Mensagge lenght:5 Start offset: 0= .000 (untill checking the real start time by Ebnaut)
List lenght 20000 Freq offset: 0.= 1  (for 8270.100)
CPUs:1 Phase Step: 30
 
Have tried to short lest lenght t= o 200 but it crashes anyway. It is Ebnaut_rx V0.6
 
Any idea of what's going on ? Did= n't get a problem before with shorter (10 minutes) FFT files<= /div>
 
I have got an small trace in= the spectrogram at 8270.110
The QRG do not match with Stephan= 's transmission, but here is the picture
 
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de Markus Vester
Enviado el: martes, 02 de mayo de 2017 23:37
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ?

Hi Luis,

> BTW. What I'm getting from SL is one FFT file 112Kb size every ho= ur as Markus said
> But how can I merge all the files of a 8h transmission like the o= ne your are running now ?

Each of these files contains the data for approx. 8.9 hours. The filename (= and the timestamp, which are the first two numbers in the file) refers= to the middle of the recording. For example, a file called "= ;05020430.txt" would be centered on 4:30 UT, and contain all received data from 0.03 to 8:57 UT. The next one would then = be "05020530.txt", covering 1:03 to 9:57, etc. So the files = are largely overlapping. A short transmission could be contained in more th= an one file, and a very long one (> 7.9 h) might not be completely covered at all. The easiest way is to select the file whose name= is closest to the midtime of the EbNaut transmission.

Don't let yourself be confused by the file timestamps in Windows Explo= rer, which may be one hour later than the end of the recording. The re= ason is that SpecLab closes the "old" export file only = immediately before the next one will be written. This is also the reason why you cannot delete the latest file while SL is running, but = you can copy it to another folder.

Usually the data will have started some time before the anno= unced beginning of an EbNaut transmission. The EbNaut decoder will show the= file start time, and you will then have to calculate and enter&n= bsp;the start offset.  

Best 73,
Markus   


-----Urspr=FCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez <luis@vigilant.es>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Di, 2. Mai 2017 22:54
Betreff: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ?

Hi Stefan

The grabber is now showing full spectrum from 0-24KHz

The Rx is not at Benidorm in the high tower. It is in the roof of a tw= o level house on top of a 5m pole
But clear out from high obstacles and trees
Fortunately no near by AM or LF stations. The strongest station in the= first 500KHz is an Algerian LW broadcast
at 252Khz which puts -18dBm here in the central carrier

The pole is a 50cm x 10mm diameter aluminium rod. Will play with the 1= 0MOhm resistor and first fet stage
with filter. I will also test a different location for the probe. The = noise at MiniWhip rised 20dB, so must get it
appart to keep the ear at MF/LF. The power supply is a 12V transformer= shared with the MiniWhip
Will test another one just for the VLF probe and with better filtering= . The GND of the antenna is separated
from mains earth and there is an audio transformer to the PC soundcard=

>>It is all not easy! I would say it is harder tha= n EME ;-)

You can say it truly Stephan. It IS much harder than EME :-)
In EME you can run a modest station and the big guns will work you (my= case, for example)
In VLF you have to be the big gun and try to target some electrons int= o modest stations with small antennas
into a noise storm

>>
De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] en nombre de DK7FC [selberdenken@posteo.de]
Enviado: martes, 2 de mayo de 2017 14:55
Para: rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: SL settings for EbNaut FFT recording ?

Hi Luis,

Am 02.05.2017 10:49, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
= I was already running an SL instance showing the first 24KHz in a fast way to get an ide= a of what's going on with QRM and known signals
= It is already included in the grabber at 1 min/pixel. Hour changed to UTC just now
Yes but it starts at 6 kHz, so not the first 24 kHz ;-) From 0...6 kHz ther= e are also informations which are relevant to evaluate the situation of you= r receiver(site).

=  
= As you can see, there is a LOT of noise around. What I'm using is your VLF E-Fiel= d probe with the first JFet separated in a 50cm aluminium rod probe
Not only the length of the rod, also the height above ground, the effective= height, playes an even bigger role. Sourrounded by trees you miss sensitiv= ity, the lower the frequency is. And on the top of a high tower, the signal= s will be much stronger, with the same rod!
If there is a strong local AM transmitter on MF, you may get some interfere= nces, and so on. Thus it is good to see what happens below 6 kHz too.
When DLF on 153 kHz has been active here, running 500 kW to a 350m high ant= enna in 40 km distance, i sometimes saw AM components, demodulation stuff o= n VLF, in one of the first versions. So when the antenna is on a high tower= and the signal levels are strong, you may afford a second RC low pass filter in front of the first JFET, giv= ing a cleaner spectrum on the lower VLF. On the other side, with a longer r= od (giving more capacity) you may decrease the 10 MOhm resistor. This shoul= d reduce the noise of the first JFET a bit.
I just played with all that stuff a week ago when optimising my ULF E field= circuit for 970 Hz.

Obviously, no clear trace from your last transmission in the 31mHz spectrogram with this Rx conditio= ns
31 mHz? That's quite optimistic! I would rather try 31 uHz.
Are you using an AF isolation transformer between soundcard and antenna? Wh= at type of power supply are you using for the antenna? Is the GND of the an= tenna separated from the mains earth?

= So, 7Km is an outstanding Dx at this moment. But really challenging 
 
I do already have a failed microwave oven to use the transformer. And the audio PA too. So you mean to apply th= e high voltage to the antenna
without resonating coil, right ?<= /span>
Yes.
Better start with some measurements in the shack, not on the roof :-)
Measure or estimate the capacity of your antenna. Switch a fixed C of that = value parallel to the transformer. Use a sine signal generator connected to= the audio PA. Try to find a resonance or check the voltage at 8270 Hz. May= be a normal mains transformer 12V -> 230V will give better results! Maybe you need to add your own primar= y winding to the transformer. Try to get 1 kV or so, that should work well.= With a mains transformer, 500V may work for a few hours. If you have a tor= oidal transformer, use that!
You can also switch an external C parallel to the transformer if that helps= to rise the voltage on the desired frequency. Or switch it in series to th= e primary winding. Ah and a resistor, maybe 2 Ohm or so may help to protect= the PA from transients and short cuts (resonances).



Nice therm. Don't know if the pipe running down to ground would have any issue with this. At the moment = 80w at MF didn't show to be harmful
But there can be some noise at 8KHz and this would really be an annoying side effect if that happens :(
The antenna currents will be very low. There will be no unwanted effects, e= xcept maybe some local E field coupling on the roof.

 
The resonating coil for VLF is in the "To-Do" list. Actually found a huge plastic (resin) garde= n flowerpots which are 60cm diameter by 35cm high
This can be stacked upside down leaving airgap between them for ventilation. Just adding one final on= top with no coil serves as rain protection
of the full arrange.
Maybe it's a good idea to start in small steps. With your own monitor you w= ill have some first results. And maybe some of the local EA amateurs can he= lp to reach the next distance step :-)
It is all not easy! I would say it is harder than EME ;-)

73, Stefan

--_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB8FDD6AEAservigilantvigi_--