Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1002; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TITLE_EMPTY,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u9S9WrCS025309 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 11:32:53 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1c03SO-0004wJ-RH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:28:12 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1c03SN-0004wA-TF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:28:11 +0100 Received: from gmy2-mh809.smtproutes.com ([94.186.192.138]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1c03SK-0003we-Rx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:28:10 +0100 X-Katharion-ID: 1477646868.87342.gmy2-mh809 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.es ([87.216.178.132]) by gmy2-mh809.smtproutes.com [(94.186.192.138)] with ESMTP via TCP (TLSv1/TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA); 28 Oct 2016 09:27:48 +0000 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::c40d:8140:d722:5448]) by servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::c40d:8140:d722:5448%16]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 11:27:47 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?VIGILANT_Luis_Fern=E1ndez?= To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: ULF: A new step on the large ULF coil... Thread-Index: AQHSIPOTeNQ3U+4Bhkyny2Kc6nqwNKC68uEAgAE0RHD//+8FgIABohvQ Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:27:46 +0000 Message-ID: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB5D840812@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <5811D6B3.7090201@posteo.de> Accept-Language: es-ES, en-US Content-Language: es-ES X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.0.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scan-Signature: 3f96c9ff152a6a60cc2344b4cc7e7dd2 Subject: RE: ULF: A new step on the large ULF coil... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB5D840812servigilantvigi_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Content-Length: 12127 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9268 --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB5D840812servigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan ....xLF !! :-) That's the long explanation I needed to get it clear. Thank you very much ! 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: jueves, 27 de octubre de 2016 12:28 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: ULF: A new step on the large ULF coil... Hi Luis, Am 27.10.2016 11:40, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: Amazing work Stefan !! :-O I bet you have constructed some kind of support (like a lathe) which lets y= ou rotate the pipe easily and wound the coils . Right ? Right! See: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/ULF/20160702_22225= 7.mp4 It's quite comfortable but still a lot of work. This is getting really heavy and the quality of coils looks very nice and r= epeteable ...... at least five times ! ;-) 5 kg of copper wire so far. Still quite managable. Dumb question: Why do you get different inductance values when resonating i= t with antenna equivalent capacitor and when measuring current at 273V AC /= 50Hz ?? Shouldn't be inductance a constant value ? ...... or I'm missing something = obvious :( It's due to the inner-winding capacity which is higher than on a single lay= er coil. At the self-resonance frequency you need no external C to get this= resonance, of course. Then add just 10 pF external C. The new resonance fr= equency will be almost the same. If you calculate L from that frequency and= C, it will be a gigantic high value, several GH :-) Assume the internal C is 100 pF. And L is 4 H. Then f res will be about 7.9= 577 kHz. With 10 pF external it will be 7.5874 kHz. If you ignore the inter= nal C and say "I'm getting 7.5874 kHz with just 10 pF connected to the L" y= ou would calculate L =3D 44 H! So you need to switch a much larger C in parallel to L so that the internal= C becomes irrelevant. Maybe 1 uF, then you will get 79.6 Hz at 4H. When ca= lculating L with 1.000001 uF (1uF + 100 pF) and 79.6 Hz you will get 3.997 = H, which is quite correct! It doesn't need to be a resonated circuit of course. You can also apply a c= onstant voltage and simply measure the current. But you need to know the DC= resistance then. Then Z =3D U/I =3D R^2 + XL^2 and L =3D XL / 314 (at 50 H= z). Good luck with the 6th floor. Seems that there is no room for a 7th, so tha= t's why you mentioned the variometer I will first build the variometer now on a 16cm diameter and 6cm high piece= of tube. Will see what the tuning range is. You know, actually i'm not a f= riend of calculations if i can do an experiment instead :-) 73, Stefan 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 26 de octubre de 2016 19:06 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: ULF: A new step on the large ULF coil... Hi ULF, It's just a few weeks ago, now the 5th stack is wound on the coil: https://= dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/ULF/20161026_185804.jpg The DC resistance rose from 445 Ohm to 572 Ohm. The measured resonance frequency (using the antenna equivalent C in the sha= ck) dropped from 3.667 kHz down to 3.208 kHz. That should be about 4.92 H. Measured at 273V AC / 50 Hz, i'm getting 197 mA, so the actual inductance i= s 4.0 H. A 6th stack and a variometer part is needed! 73, Stefan --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB5D840812servigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan ....xLF !! :-)
 
That's the long explanation I nee= ded to get it clear. Thank you very much !
 
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: jueves, 27 de octubre de 2016 12:28
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: ULF: A new step on the large ULF coil...

Hi Luis,

Am 27.10.2016 11:40, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
Amazing work Stefan !! :-O=
 
I bet you have constructed some k= ind of support (like a lathe) which lets you rotate the pipe easily&nb= sp;and wound the coils . Right ?
Right! See: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/ULF/20160702_222257.mp4 It's quite comfortable but still a lot of work.
This is getting really heavy and = the quality of coils looks very nice and repeteable ...... at least fi= ve times ! ;-)
5 kg of copper wire so far. Still quite managable.
 
Dumb question: Why do you get dif= ferent inductance values when resonating it with antenna equivalent capacit= or and when measuring current at 273V AC / 50Hz  ??
Shouldn't be inductance a constan= t value ? ...... or I'm missing something obvious :(
It's due to the inner-winding capacity which is higher than on a single lay= er coil. At the self-resonance frequency you need no external C to get this= resonance, of course. Then add just 10 pF external C. The new resonance fr= equency will be almost the same. If you calculate L from that frequency and C, it will be a gigantic high v= alue, several GH :-)
Assume the internal C is 100 pF. And L is 4 H. Then f res will be about 7.9= 577 kHz. With 10 pF external it will be 7.5874 kHz. If you ignore the inter= nal C and say "I'm getting 7.5874 kHz with just 10 pF connected to the= L" you would calculate L =3D 44 H!
So you need to switch a much larger C in parallel to L so that the internal= C becomes irrelevant. Maybe 1 uF, then you will get 79.6 Hz at 4H. When ca= lculating L with 1.000001 uF (1uF + 100 pF) and 79.6 Hz you will get 3.= 997 H, which is quite correct!
It doesn't need to be a resonated circuit of course. You can also apply a c= onstant voltage and simply measure the current. But you need to know the DC= resistance then. Then Z =3D U/I =3D R^2 + XL^2 and L =3D XL / 314 (at = 50 Hz).

 
Good luck with the 6th floor. See= ms that there is no room for a 7th, so that's why you mentioned the variome= ter
I will first build the variometer now on a 16cm diameter and 6cm high piece= of tube. Will see what the tuning range is. You know, actually i'm not a f= riend of calculations if i can do an experiment instead :-)

73, Stefan
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 26 de octubre de 2016 19:06
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: ULF: A new step on the large ULF coil...

Hi ULF,

It's just a few weeks ago, now the 5th stack is wound on the coil: <= b>https://dl= .dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/ULF/20161026_185804.jpg

The DC resistance rose from 445 Ohm to 572 Ohm.
The measured resonance frequency (using the antenna equivalent C in the sha= ck) dropped from 3.667 kHz down to 3.208 kHz. That should be about 4.92 H.
Measured at 273V AC / 50 Hz, i'm getting 197 mA, so the actual inductance i= s 4.0 H.

A 6th stack and a variometer part is needed!

73, Stefan

--_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB5D840812servigilantvigi_--