Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t9M8lNYf008134 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:47:23 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZpBOc-0003mI-M4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:38:50 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZpBOc-0003m9-59 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:38:50 +0100 Received: from s16315160.onlinehome-server.info ([87.106.80.234] helo=mail.vigilant.es) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpBNl-0003vW-11 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:38:48 +0100 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([87.216.178.132]) by vigilant.es with MailEnable ESMTP; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:37:23 +0200 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::3cdf:95f8:c1c9:3931]) by servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::3cdf:95f8:c1c9:3931%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:37:31 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?VIGILANT_Luis_Fern=E1ndez?= To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: EA5DOM going vertical Thread-Index: AQHRCGG9wFizgMH7ikaxIJNDTXOPZp5vUyMAgABqEsv///hggIAAkkeG///ppACAAXeRGP//+iqAACBVuED////TAP//uTwwgADbkYD//AdtMA== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:37:30 +0000 Message-ID: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B25A181@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <562562B3.8080005@posteo.de> Accept-Language: es-ES, en-US Content-Language: es-ES X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.0.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scan-Signature: a7057be409d35b5f2297c3c8c9fbcb9e Subject: RE: LF: EA5DOM going vertical Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B25A181servigilantvigi_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4572 --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B25A181servigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, MF Sunshine again here (standard weather ON) :-) The vertical antenna is an Ultrabeam, SteppIR like. So it is a glass fiber = wip with the electric conductor inside In order to get top capacity the idea is to hang a T wire from the top of t= he fiber whip. Using a pulley I can get down the wire antenna easily, and still keep the dynamic vertical antenna f= or other purposes. So I'll have a 11m vertical side and a pair of lines on top which can be up to 10m long ea= ch. I can also make an inverted L with only on horizontal line. I will use the big coil as variable coil to find t= he optimal value Will get the 1.5mm^2 What is available here is multi wire (litz ??) single = wire is no longer in the market, so they said. Is it recommended also for the coil ? Looking for bigger coils I recall that beer coolers uses a nice metal pipe = coil in the heat exchange stage. This stuff can be found in scrap from used or failed units and looks interesting http://www.efficold.com/upload/productos/archivos/accesories.pdf 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: lunes, 19 de octubre de 2015 23:38 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical Hi Luis, Lol. Yes, maybe an antenna analyzer helps to understand things. For the coil i would use isolated mains electric wire. We have 1.5mm^2 and = 2.5mm^2 here in DL. Also there is 0.75mm^2 for some installations. 0.75 or = 1.5 is a good choice for you i would say. I think you can get a Q of 250 or= so, which is fine. But sooner or later you will need a bigger PA, HI :-) 73, Stefan Am 19.10.2015 17:24, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: Hi Fausto, Stefan, MF That's what I need. Discussion and brain storming ! :-) Yes. The coil has too many wounds and should be about 3.9mH It is the first time I ty to make such a thing so I used all the wire I had= to see what I can get. I can redo it and it is part of the game. No problem The internal variometer is what everybody uses in such a big coils. So, has= sense to go that way >>Ehm, what you can see there will not happen to you i think. But anyway, b= e careful with high voltage! Thank you for the advice Anyway I'll not show this pictures to my wife :-)))) >>have you an idea about the Q of this coil? Absolutely NO idea Fausto :( I'm also unable to understand how a bare 11m antenna without top hat is wor= king now without any load coil, no matching adaptor and with may be 90w I'm getting reports over 1800km. What I measure is the PA consumption: 8A a= t 12V and the RMS on ouput is 149V Does it means about 250ohm on antenna ? The counterpoise may be bigger than I thought. I remind that the coax I'm u= sing now has a gas discharge device connected to mains ground. So the whole mains ground in the building should be working a= s counterpoise BTW. An antenna analyzer is on the way. Thought I could live without it but= seems not ;-) 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: lunes, 19 de octubre de 2015 14:45 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical Hi Luis, Nice looking coil. It has a good ratio between diameter and length although= it would have been better to have a small gap between the wire turns. And = i didn't expect that you need so much L. What is the L of this coil? Looks = like 3 mH or so. You will need about 2 mH. But i can't se the actual number= of turns. Probably it is just right :-) I would build my own variometer, i.e. drill 2 holes into the tube, add an a= xis and put another coil on this axis. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/20141027_203720.jpg Like th= is image. Ehm, what you can see there will not happen to you i think. But a= nyway, be careful with high voltage! Good luck! 73, Stefan Am 19.10.2015 12:52, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: Hi Stefan This is a picture of the coil 25cm diameter pipe, 90 cm high https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/CAM00571.jpg I can also fit this variometer on the top side of the pipe https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/CAM00559.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/CAM00558.jpg The -3dB of my signals yesterday are probably due to QRN on the Rx. We had = a big storm down in south EA Another one is predicted for tomorrow just here and strong rain. No good fo= r installing the coil 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: domingo, 18 de octubre de 2015 23:20 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical Hi Luis, Am 18.10.2015 21:59, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: For the transformer I plan to recycle the one osed for the loop. It has two= big toroids 80mm external diameter and 8mm thick. Both joined make 16mm thick. Unfortunately don't know which = is the material used Hm, sounds not optimal, somehow :-) But just start with a 1:1 transformer a= nd a 50 Ohm dummy load as a first test. If the transformer stays cold and t= he load (e.g. power consumption, or current meter reading of the power supp= ly) is the same with or without the transformer, everything is fine. Can be primary and secondary be wounded one on top of the other ?? Yes, this is recommended! Tonight reports on my remote monitor are 3dB down. I made a modification I have finally connected a wire from top terrace to the fire extinguish pip= e which runs inside the building down to the basements, were pumping system is located. The wire is not yet conne= cted to the ground side of the vertical BUT the actual radial counterpoise runs parallel to this wire for about 5m Seems like this can be the cause of 3dB looses. ...but maybe the situation is different when matching the PA properly. In t= he moment you don't know at all what the feed point impedance is. ...and ho= w the PA behaves at that impedance connected. Keep tuned ! RR. GL, 73, Stefan --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B25A181servigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan, MF
 
Sunshine again here (standard wea= ther ON) :-)
 
The vertical antenna is an Ultrab= eam, SteppIR like. So it is a glass fiber wip with the electric conduc= tor inside
In order to get top capacity the = idea is to hang a T wire from the top of the fiber whip. Using a pulle= y I can get
down the wire antenna easily, and= still keep the dynamic vertical antenna for other purposes. So I'll h= ave a
11m vertical side and a pair= of lines on top which can be up to 10m long each. I can also make an inver= ted L with
only on horizontal line. I will u= se the big coil as variable coil to find the optimal value
&= nbsp;
Will get the 1.5mm^2 = What is available here is multi wire (litz ??) single wire is no longe= r in the market, so they said.
Is it recommended also for the co= il ?
 
Lookin= g for bigger coils I recall that beer coolers uses a nice metal pipe coil i= n the heat exchange stage. This stuff
can be found in scrap from used or fail= ed units and looks interesting
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM=
De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: lunes, 19 de octubre de 2015 23:38
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical

Hi Luis,

Lol. Yes, maybe an antenna analyzer helps to understand things.
For the coil i would use isolated mains electric wire. We have 1.5mm^2 and = 2.5mm^2 here in DL. Also there is 0.75mm^2 for some installations. 0.75 or = 1.5 is a good choice for you i would say. I think you can get a Q of 250 or= so, which is fine. But sooner or later you will need a bigger PA, HI :-)
73, Stefan

Am 19.10.2015 17:24, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
Hi Fausto, Stefan, MF
&= nbsp;
That's what I need. Discussion an= d brain storming ! :-)
&= nbsp;
Yes. The coil has too many wounds= and should be about 3.9mH
It is the first time I ty to= make such a thing so I used all the wire I had to see what I can get. I ca= n redo it and it is part
of the game. No problem
&= nbsp;
The internal variometer is what e= verybody uses in such a big coils. So, has sense to go that way 
&= nbsp;
= >>Ehm, what you can see there will not happen to you i think. But anyway, be careful with high voltage!

Thank you for the advice
= Anyway I'll not show this pictures to my wife :-))))
&= nbsp;
>>have you an idea about the Q of this coil?<= /font>

=  Absolutely NO idea Fausto :(
=  
= I'm also unable to understand how a bare 11m antenna w= ithout top hat is working now without any load coil, no matching adaptor and with may be 90w
= I'm getting reports over 1800km. What I measure is the= PA consumption: 8A at 12V and the RMS on ouput is 149V
= Does it means about 250ohm on antenna ?
=  
= The counterpoise may be bigger than I thought. I remind that the= coax I'm using now has a gas discharge device connected to
= mains ground. So the whole mains ground in the building should b= e working as counterpoise
=  
= BTW. An antenna analyzer is on the way. Thought I could live wit= hout it but seems not  ;-)
=  
=
73 de Luis
EA5DOM
=  
= De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: lunes, 19 de octubre de 2015 14:45
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical

Hi Luis,

Nice looking coil. It has a good ratio between diameter and length although= it would have been better to have a small gap between the wire turns. And = i didn't expect that you need so much L. What is the L of this coil? Looks = like 3 mH or so. You will need about 2 mH. But i can't se the actual number of turns. Probably it is just right= :-)
I would build my own variometer, i.e. drill 2 holes into the tube, add an a= xis and put another coil on this axis.
https://dl.dr= opboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/20141027_203720.jpg Like this image.= Ehm, what you can see there will not happen to you i think. But anyway, be careful with high voltage!

Good luck!

73, Stefan


Am 19.10.2015 12:52, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
Hi Stefan
&= nbsp;
This is a picture of the coil
25cm diameter pipe, 90 cm high
&= nbsp;
&= nbsp;
I can also fit this variomet= er on the top side of the pipe
&= nbsp;
&= nbsp;
The -3dB of my signals yesterday = are probably due to QRN on the Rx. We had a big storm down in south EA
 
Another one is predicted for tomo= rrow just here and strong rain. No good for installing the coil
&= nbsp;
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: domingo, 18 de octubre de 2015 23:20
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical

Hi Luis,

Am 18.10.2015 21:59, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
For the transformer I plan to recycle the o= ne osed for the loop. It has two big toroids 80mm external diameter
and 8mm thick. Both joined make 16mm t= hick. Unfortunately don't know which is the material used
Hm, sounds not optimal, somehow :-) But just start with a 1:1 transformer a= nd a 50 Ohm dummy load as a first test. If the transformer stays cold and t= he load (e.g. power consumption, or current meter reading of the power supp= ly) is the same with or without the transformer, everything is fine.


Can be primary and secondary be wounde= d one on top of the other ??
Yes, this is recommended!
Tonight reports on my remote monitor a= re 3dB down. I made a modification
I have finally connected a wire from t= op terrace to the fire extinguish pipe which runs inside the building down<= /font>
to the basements, were pumping system = is located. The wire is not yet connected to the ground side of the vertica= l
BUT the actual radial counterpoise run= s parallel to this wire for about 5m

Seems like this can be the cause of 3d= B looses.
...but maybe the situation is different when matching the PA properly. In t= he moment you don't know at all what the feed point impedance is. ...and ho= w the PA behaves at that impedance connected.
 Keep tuned !
RR. GL,

73, Stefan
--_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B25A181servigilantvigi_--