Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, DRUG_DOSAGE,FORGED_RCVD_HELO,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t4KCbj3F028262 for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 14:37:45 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Yv3Cn-0007vv-9z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 May 2015 13:34:37 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Yv3Cm-0007vm-KC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 May 2015 13:34:36 +0100 Received: from s16315160.onlinehome-server.info ([87.106.80.234] helo=mail.vigilant.es) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Yv3Ck-0004H8-90 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 May 2015 13:34:35 +0100 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([87.216.178.132]) by vigilant.es with MailEnable ESMTP; Wed, 20 May 2015 14:34:14 +0200 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::3cdf:95f8:c1c9:3931]) by servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::3cdf:95f8:c1c9:3931%17]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 20 May 2015 14:34:15 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?VIGILANT_Luis_Fern=E1ndez?= To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: 23:16 136 G6AVK de EB3FRN-1 Op32 Deep Search 725 mi -40 dB Thread-Index: AQHQkjMNiOUTj9URcEuC3UbROTSh+52DURkAgAArD7CAAELjAIABB2Ag Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 12:34:15 +0000 Message-ID: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B107392@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <555BB7F8.80808@posteo.de> Accept-Language: es-ES, en-US Content-Language: es-ES X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.0.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scan-Signature: 059065dc6500ac08f691f2dd07d4538f Subject: RE: LF: 23:16 136 G6AVK de EB3FRN-1 Op32 Deep Search 725 mi -40 dB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B107392servigilantvigi_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3168 --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B107392servigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan Which is the turn count on your variometer ?? I can count about 10 in the i= nternal coil but how many in the outer coil ? May be a variometer is not needed as I can adjust the lenght of the antenna= . Althought loosing lenght (height) is never an advantage a fixed coil would simplify the test There is really now metallic structure on the top of such a building? I can= not imagine. There must have been lightnig strikes from time to time. If no= t, the next strike will show you where the next earth connection can be fou= nd :-) One of the reasons to avoid using the vertical Ae hardwired to GND via coil= is not to become the Franklin lighthing arrestor of the building ! :-( Fortunately the antenna is like a SteppIR (UltraBeam) and the 11m vertical = metal element can be rolled down. So it electrically dissapears There are higher building towers around here and they DO have a lighthing a= rrestor system. May be this has helped to keep discharges away so far. But better not to buy tickets for this lottery ;-) Will keep you (all) updated 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 20 de mayo de 2015 0:24 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: 23:16 136 G6AVK de EB3FRN-1 Op32 Deep Search 725 mi -40 dB Hi Luis, Am 19.05.2015 19:03, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: I have been using the vertical antenna (11m really) as a first Tx Ae, with = NO loading coil No coil? That is the reason! With a correctly resonated and matched antenna= you will easily 'gain' 40 dB! 55 pF on MF is about -j 6.1 kOhm. If you run a PA which applies a constant = voltage to the antenna, the current is 50/6100 times lower than at 50 Ohm (= not the same TX power of course. It is just an assumption to calculate some= thing). Then the ERP is about 42 dB lower! It is quite easy to wind a coil for MF. For that antenna i would recommend = a 20 cm diameter tube and simple 1.5mm^2 electrical wire. I used a similar motor driven variometer https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/= u/19882028/MF/MF%20motor%20variometer%20coil.JPG on MF, until there was a H= V breaktrough at 1.000 W ERP: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/= MF/20141027_203720.jpg and 11m wire hanging down as counter poise. There is really now metallic structure on the top of such a building? I can= not imagine. There must have been lightnig strikes from time to time. If no= t, the next strike will show you where the next earth connection can be fou= nd :-) The building structure is made of metal reinforced concrete. Probably the c= hoice to get a counter poise is the fire extinguish wet column, which runs inside the building. A true m= etal pipe filled with water and not connected to houses, just to hoses for emergency use. Sounds very useful! I would use that. I can also run a wire down parallel to this pipe but not sure if can connect it to true ground at the bottom Which feeding system and coil do you suggest ? I suggest something like shown in this schematic: A 50 Ohm cable, a galvani= cally decoupling transformer which is matching the residual losses(+ the sm= all radiation resistance) to 50 Ohm and a variometer: https://dl.dropboxuse= rcontent.com/u/19882028/LF/schematics/LF%20H%20bridge%20PA%2C%20DK7FC.png Perfectly understood the path stability problems on MF Stefan. At the momen= t I keep QRSS on 476.177 and got reports from EA1FAQ, EA4NZ and EB3FRN. I have set a kinf of "contes= t" sending different messages that they have to copy. This are some winner screenshots. Tx time for DFCW = is 60 sec. Will try shorter https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EA1FAQ%20Rx%20QRSS%20MF%20= 15%20mayo%202015.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EB3FRN%20copy%20EA5DOM%20Q= RSS%20476KHz.bmp https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EA4NZ%20Rx%20QRSS%20MF.jpg LF/MF Always learning ! Always fun :-) 73 de Luis EA5DOM Very nice! Keep the band alive down there in EA. (Uuuh, reminds me that i'v= e not really been active in the recent time, at least not in CW). I'm looking forward to your progress! 73, Stefan --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B107392servigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan
 
Which is the turn count on your v= ariometer ?? I can count about 10 in the internal coil but how many&nb= sp;in the outer coil ?
May be a variometer is not needed= as I can adjust the lenght of the antenna. Althought loosing lenght (= height) is never an advantage
a fixed coil would simplify the t= est
 
There is really now metallic structure on the to= p of such a building? I cannot imagine. There must have been lightnig strikes from time to time. If not, the next strike will= show you where the next earth connection can be found :-)

One of the reasons to avoid using the vertical Ae hardwired to GND via= coil is not to become the Franklin lighthing arrestor of the building ! :-= (
Fortunately the antenna is like a= SteppIR (UltraBeam) and the 11m vertical metal element can be rolled down.=  So it electrically dissapears 
There are higher building towers = around here and they DO have a lighthing arrestor system. May be this has h= elped to keep discharges away
so far. But better not to buy tic= kets for this lottery ;-)
 
Will keep you (all) updated
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 20 de mayo de 2015 0:24
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: 23:16 136 G6AVK de EB3FRN-1 Op32 Deep Search 725 mi = -40 dB

Hi Luis,

Am 19.05.2015 19:03, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: 
I have been using the vertical antenna (11m really) as a fir=
st Tx Ae, with NO loading coil
No coil? That is the reason! With a correctly resonated and matched antenna= you will easily 'gain' 40 dB!
55 pF on MF is about -j 6.1 kOhm. If you run a PA which applies a constant = voltage to the antenna, the current is 50/6100 times lower than at 50 Ohm (= not the same TX power of course. It is just an assumption to calculate some= thing). Then the ERP is about 42 dB lower!
It is quite easy to wind a coil for MF. For that antenna i would recommend = a 20 cm diameter tube and simple 1.5mm^2 electrical wire.
I used a similar motor driven variometer https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/MF%20motor%20variometer%20c= oil.JPG on MF, until there was a HV breaktrough at 1.000 W ERP: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/20141027_203720.jpg

and 11m wire hanging down as counter poise.
There is really now metallic structure on the top of such a building? I can= not imagine. There must have been lightnig strikes from time to time. If no= t, the next strike will show you where the next earth connection can be fou= nd :-)

The building structure is made of metal reinforced concrete.=
 Probably the choice to get a counter poise
is the fire extinguish wet column, which runs inside the building. A true m=
etal pipe filled with water and not connected=20
to houses, just to hoses for emergency use.
Sounds very useful! I would use that.
 I can also run a wire down parallel to this pipe but not su=
re
if can connect it to true ground at the bottom

Which feeding system and coil do you suggest ?
I suggest something like shown in this schematic: A 50 Ohm cable, a galvani= cally decoupling transformer which is matching the residual losses(+ th= e small radiation resistance) to 50 Ohm and a variometer: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/LF/schematics/LF%20H%20bridge%= 20PA%2C%20DK7FC.png

Perfectly understood the path stability problems on MF Stefa=
n. At the moment I keep QRSS on 476.177
and got reports from EA1FAQ, EA4NZ and EB3FRN. I have set a kinf of "c=
ontest" sending different messages
that they have to copy. This are some winner screenshots. Tx time for DFCW =
is 60 sec. Will try shorter

https://dl=
.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EA1FAQ%20Rx%20QRSS%20MF%2015%20mayo%=
202015.jpg

https://dl.dro=
pboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EB3FRN%20copy%20EA5DOM%20QRSS%20476KHz.b=
mp

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.=
com/u/7162072/Docs/EA4NZ%20Rx%20QRSS%20MF.jpg

LF/MF
Always learning ! Always fun :-)

73 de Luis
EA5DOM
Very nice! Keep the band alive down there in EA. (Uuuh, reminds me that i'v= e not really been active in the recent time, at least not in CW).

I'm looking forward to your progress!

73, Stefan --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B107392servigilantvigi_--