Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mk07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mk07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.97.139]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMB012-a0784d5a515121b; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 05:11:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mk07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E5827380000F3; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 05:11:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PpHrh-0001dy-VN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:10:37 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PpHrh-0001dp-5L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:10:37 +0000 Received: from nm7-vm0.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.183.236]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PpHrh-0004gA-38 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:10:37 +0000 Received: from [217.146.183.210] by nm7.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2011 10:10:31 -0000 Received: from [217.146.183.43] by tm3.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2011 10:10:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1028.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2011 10:10:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 773990.29689.bm@omp1028.mail.ukl.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 8843 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Feb 2011 10:10:30 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1297764630; bh=zrTJo6QgXlGrr42XKlOTGUzyxAfZw8dswj7o9/wd/M4=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cLur/3Z2vglsCc7nJyBiof57knmO1b5TjHNVheuK6aPmLItF9Hun0tiMLkuCSKX6PEiC4l4tyo+gfhVLS0AZd4Bx+hQIFcpUlQgY3kZx2qis+Lib3Pb9GjIUPv3vEUz12oHlX85F5QftaRaYvUSaBKRtKQI9q5+E4sTZY18sXps= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cUmpGn7YRdrnW3nK4mIMxoMzejHQ7DDPp0kN3M/z/a7EYq8I5CrN25m4JJeD4gU5yF8sKISGRMA0s2nqQltP5ndQG5iGX2UcAzJtL+gNWH9Jr7FdwV3Ida/xnTMODgfcon3IIWiqVADbic/jE+GjmzTSeOkqgN/ECW5X4f0jC/s=; Message-ID: <574378.8641.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: RmvsPWMVM1kIBOczih6LWB0f0nrIt9IiGrbJ7hvwPPfsAld xAoVmXchkgqveEk2ZJXfDAtQ6h0L9sDEheDQhCuwa872RFVZUl922BRVbioR tDUix2Pxl6plRmWUHE8Yl6xVheRFWi8i5l2xXJoxEib4qCTBQ6bMw978lpZg cjJ7_4BKFv44A8gtjr7A4Pa2pU5GCuCXfEwJSszb61QCQiZqlT5BM6jyriHe orhr3mAQ8QOAlO67Z78KwQxFp3HdOs0kq798vmiTmoHunCnXYbEFbQ9jdOdN LDlYlEPkGXn5R9N5CV7uzhxHR5bhKExj3L_puWE6fow-- Received: from [86.156.201.240] by web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:10:30 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/555 YahooMailWebService/0.8.108.291010 References: <6AD920D46A4546ECB1E0FF76E739307C@AGB> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:10:30 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: LF: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IExGOiBSRTogQWxpZ25tZW50IG9mICAoTmFycm93IEJhbmQpIERBVEEg?= =?utf-8?B?IGFuZCAgV1NQUiAgZnJlcXVlbmN54oCZcyBvbiB0aGUgIDUwMCBLSHogIGJh?= =?utf-8?B?bmQu?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1763879145-1297764630=:8641" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d014.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d618b4d5a514f4fbf X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --0-1763879145-1297764630=:8641 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Band plans are a bad idea all it does is great unofficial RSGB Policemen= that=20 make life a pain like they have done on VHF here in the UK......... Any wa= y the=20 band is only on loan. =C2=A073 es GL petefmt=20 ________________________________ From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Cc: Joe Taylor Sent: Tue, 15 February, 2011 7:23:06 Subject: LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=E2=80= =99s on the 500=20 KHz band. Hello Graham, =C2=A0 I would suggest to have all digital modes as close as possible to the band= =20 edges, leaving the band centre for CW. For WSPR there=C2=A0are currently=C2=A02 segments: one for EU stations to= transmit on=20 (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz) and one NA stations to transmit on (501.1kHz +/- 100H= z) to=20 avoid local QRM (or better said RX overload).=20 So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501.3kHz +/- 100Hz for other digimodes ? It would be possible to have a single data segment for EU and NA it we go= from=20 frequency division to time division: if all EU stations would transmit in= the=20 xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06, xx:08-xx:10 ... time slots and all NA stations= in the=20 xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-xx-08 ... time slots they can use the same frequency wi= thout=20 local QRM. But this would require a minor chang in the WSPR software (and maybe also= other=20 software). 73, Rik=C2=A0 ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g]=20 namens Graham [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk] Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 2:20 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CC: Joe Taylor Onderwerp: LF: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=E2=80=99= s on the 500=20 KHz band. Alignment of =C2=A0(Narrow Band) DATA=C2=A0and =C2=A0WSPR=C2=A0 frequency= =E2=80=99s on the=C2=A0 500 KHz=C2=A0 band. =C2=A0 The=C2=A0 original wspr frequency =C2=A0=C2=A0502.4=C2=A0 was=C2=A0 define= d=C2=A0 as the=C2=A0 working=C2=A0 frequency=C2=A0=20 to=C2=A0 utilise the=C2=A0 =E2=80=98clean=E2=80=99 area=C2=A0 just under= the=C2=A0 504=C2=A0 harmonic, whilst avoiding=20 the=C2=A0 various=C2=A0 beacons=C2=A0 running=C2=A0 across=C2=A0 the=C2=A0= 501/504=C2=A0 band at the=C2=A0 time.=20 However, time has moved on and there are now numerous =E2=80=98dial settin= g=E2=80=99s=E2=80=99 in use=20 both sides of the Atlantic. =C2=A0 Due to=C2=A0 an apparent =C2=A0increase=C2=A0 in the=C2=A0 side band=C2=A0= noise=C2=A0 from the=C2=A0 504 signal ,=20 possibly by=C2=A0 enhanced=C2=A0 propagation , the=C2=A0 ROS=C2=A0 MF =C2= =A0(100 hz b/w) working=C2=A0=20 frequency is=C2=A0 to be re defined as=C2=A0 500=C2=A0 USBdial=C2=A0 set= =C2=A0 giving a=C2=A0 centre=C2=A0 carrier=C2=A0=20 frequency of 501.500 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Due=C2=A0 to=C2=A0 Ae=C2=A0 bandwidth and=C2=A0 perhaps =C2=A0alignment=C2= =A0 with=C2=A0 =C2=A0other=C2=A0 =C2=A0band=E2=80=99s, =C2=A0I=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0would=C2=A0 suggest the original WSPR =C2=A0502.4K is=C2=A0 re= placed=C2=A0 with the=C2=A0 lower=20 frequency =C2=A0of=C2=A0 495.9K , thus=C2=A0 restoring the=C2=A0 System=E2= =80=99s=C2=A0 coverage and=C2=A0=20 facilitating=C2=A0 changes=C2=A0 of mode etc within a=C2=A0 narrow bandwid= th.=20 =C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t =C2=A0see=C2=A0 this=C2=A0 detracting=C2=A0 from the monit= oring=C2=A0 of spot=C2=A0 frequency=C2=A0=20 beacons=C2=A0 over 505Khz , but more=C2=A0 appropriate=C2=A0=C2=A0 to=C2= =A0 transmitting=C2=A0 stations ,=20 which=C2=A0 by the=C2=A0 nature of the=C2=A0 antenna arrays are=C2=A0 not= =C2=A0 able=C2=A0 comfortably=C2=A0 to=C2=A0=20 qsy=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 top=C2=A0 to=C2=A0 bottom of the=C2=A0 band without= =C2=A0 re-tuning, not=C2=A0 always a=C2=A0=20 simple=C2=A0 option. =C2=A0 Comments=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 suggestions please ?. =C2=A0 Graham G0NBD =20 --0-1763879145-1297764630=:8641 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Band plans are a bad idea all it does is great unofficial RSGB Police= men that make life a pain like they have done on VHF here in the UK.......= .. Any way the band is only on loan.
 
73 es GL petefmt=20


From: Rik Strobbe <Rik.= Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&g= t;
Cc: Joe Taylor <j= oe@Princeton.EDU>
Sent:<= /B> Tue, 15 February, 2011 7:23:06
Subject: LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR freq= uency=E2=80=99s on the 500 KHz band.

Hello Graham,
 
I would suggest to have all digital mode= s as close as possible to the band edges, leaving the band centre for CW.<= /FONT>
For WSPR there are currently 2= segments: one for EU stations to transmit on (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz) and one= NA stations to transmit on (501.1kHz +/- 100Hz) to avoid local QRM (or be= tter said RX overload).
So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501.3kHz +/= - 100Hz for other digimodes ?
It would be possible to have a single da= ta segment for EU and NA it we go from frequency division to time division= : if all EU stations would transmit in the xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06, xx:08= -xx:10 ... time slots and all NA stations in the xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-xx-08= ... time slots they can use the same frequency without local QRM.<= /DIV>
But this would require a minor chang in= the WSPR software (and maybe also other software).
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Graham [g8fz= k@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk]
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 2:20Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
CC: Joe Taylor
O= nderwerp: LF: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=E2=80= =99s on the 500 KHz band.

Alignment of  (Narrow Band) DATA  and  = ;WSPR  frequency=E2=80=99s on the  500 KHz&n= bsp; band.

 

The<= SPAN>  original wspr frequency   502.4<= SPAN>  was  defined  as th= e  working  frequency  to  utilise the  =E2=80=98clean=E2= =80=99 area  just under the  504=   harmonic, whilst avoiding the  various  beacons  running  acro= ss  the  501/504  ba= nd at the  time. However, time has moved on and there ar= e now numerous =E2=80=98dial setting=E2=80=99s=E2=80=99 in use both sides= of the Atlantic.

 

Due= to  an apparent  increase = in the  side band  noise=   from the  504 signal , possibly by&n= bsp; enhanced  propagation , the  ROS  MF  (100 hz b/w) working  frequenc= y is  to be re defined as  500&n= bsp; USB dial  set  giving a  centr= e  carrier  frequency of 501.500  

 

Due<= SPAN>  to  Ae  bandwidth= and  perhaps  alignment = with   other   band=E2=80=99s,  I  &nbs= p;would  suggest the original WSPR  502.4K is  replaced  with the  lower frequency  of  4= 95.9K , thus  restoring the  System=E2= =80=99s  coverage and  facilitating  changes  of mode etc within a&nbs= p; narrow bandwidth.

 

I do= n=E2=80=99t  see  this  detracting  from the monitoring  o= f spot  frequency  beacons = over 505Khz , but more  appropriate &= nbsp; to  transmitting  station= s , which  by the  nature of the=   antenna arrays are  not  able  comfortably  to  qsy  from  top  = to  bottom of the  band without = re-tuning, not  always a  simple  option.

 

Comm= ents  or  suggestions please ?.=

 

Grah= am

G0NBD

 




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