Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u3SAY9rD000440 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:34:09 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1avjB0-0003na-2D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:28:06 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1avjAz-0003nR-ML for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:28:05 +0100 Received: from smtpout.karoo.kcom.com ([212.50.160.34]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1avjAx-0006s8-Ls for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:28:04 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,546,1454976000"; d="scan'208,217";a="102436415" Received: from unknown (HELO [127.0.0.1]) ([109.176.201.106]) by smtpout.karoo.kcom.com with ESMTP; 28 Apr 2016 11:28:01 +0100 Message-ID: <5721E5B3.2060600@lineone.net> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:28:03 +0100 From: LineOne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <8D36D1563E694FF-18C0-50301@webmail-vd022.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8D36D1563E694FF-18C0-50301@webmail-vd022.sysops.aol.com> X-Scan-Signature: ee37f4b261e58bbaf6a18fc5319c092e Subject: Re: LF: Dirty signal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070709090600050203090100" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7887 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070709090600050203090100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Chris. I generally see a large number of sidebands when you are using WSPR but I lost the notes I made on frequency and levels from everyone's transmissions. The worst sideband was not the nearest but the second and, as I recall, it was nearly 30dB down from the main carrier, probably not enough but the frequency spacings would be useful to you. Hugh, M0DSZ. On 25/04/2016 15:25, Markus Vester wrote: > Hi Chris, > as WSPR is a constant envelope signal, overdriving the TX Audio would > not produce intermodulation but only audio harmonics. With a > fundamental near 1.5 kHz, the odd harmonics at 4.5 kHz etc. will be > too far outside the passband of an SSB transmitter to cause noticable > contamination. > However this may not be the whole truth: If the clipping already takes > place in the digital domain (i.e. before the DAC and antialias > filter), we’d still have the same harmonics but they could be aliased > down with the samplerate. For example, a clipped 1.51 kHz signal > contains components at 7f (10.57 kHz) and 9f (13.59) kHz. With 12 kHz > samplerate, these could be folded back to 1.43 and 1.59 kHz, and thus > create weak unwanted sidebands near the desired output frequency. BTW > the very same effect can happen on the receive side when overdriving > the ADC. > Best 73, > Markus > *Von: *Chris Wilson > *Gesendet: *Montag, 25. April 2016 13:38 > *An: *rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Betreff: *LF: Dirty signal > 25 April 2016 > Had a report that my LF WSPR2 signal was dirty with massive side bands > on Sunday. I had a look at my setup today found Windows had decided to > up the audio level from WSPR to maximum into the TS-590 and scoping > the output of the pre amp and frequency doubler before my G3YXM amp > showed it looking very ropey indeed. > I reset it and did a couple of normal WSPR2 transmissions interspersed > with using the WSPR TUNE function, whilst watching on the G3XXM and > G4WGT LF grabbers. I am no expert whatsoever, but it doesn't look bad > now to me. Is this an adequate test to make and to assume things are > now OK? Thanks. > Screenshots are at http://www.chriswilson.tv/signals/signals.html > -- > Best regards, > Chris 2E0ILY mailto:chris@chriswilson.tv > My part time LF grabber is at > http://www.chriswilson.tv/grabber.html --------------070709090600050203090100 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Chris.
I generally see a large number of sidebands when you are using WSPR but I lost the notes I made on frequency and levels from everyone's  transmissions. The worst sideband was not the nearest but the second and, as I recall, it was nearly 30dB down from the main carrier, probably not enough but the frequency spacings would be useful to you.
Hugh, M0DSZ.

On 25/04/2016 15:25, Markus Vester wrote:
Hi Chris,
 
as WSPR is a constant envelope signal, overdriving the TX Audio would not produce intermodulation but only audio harmonics. With a fundamental near 1.5 kHz, the odd harmonics at 4.5 kHz etc. will be too far outside the passband of an SSB transmitter to cause noticable contamination.
 
However this may not be the whole truth: If the clipping already takes place in the digital domain (i.e. before the DAC and antialias filter), we’d still have the same harmonics but they could be aliased down with the samplerate. For example, a clipped 1.51 kHz signal contains components at 7f (10.57 kHz) and 9f (13.59) kHz. With 12 kHz samplerate, these could be folded back to 1.43 and 1.59 kHz, and thus create weak unwanted sidebands near the desired output frequency. BTW the very same effect can happen on the receive side when overdriving the ADC.
 
Best 73,
Markus
 
 
 
Von: Chris Wilson
Gesendet: Montag, 25. April 2016 13:38
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: LF: Dirty signal
 
25 April 2016
 
 
Had a report that my LF WSPR2 signal was dirty with massive side bands
on Sunday. I had a look at my setup today found Windows had decided to
up the audio level from WSPR to maximum into the TS-590 and scoping
the output of the pre amp and frequency doubler before my G3YXM amp
showed it looking very ropey indeed.
 
I reset it and did a couple of normal WSPR2 transmissions interspersed
with using the WSPR TUNE function, whilst watching on the G3XXM and
G4WGT LF grabbers. I am no expert whatsoever, but it doesn't look bad
now to me. Is this an adequate test to make and to assume things are
now OK? Thanks.
 
Screenshots are at http://www.chriswilson.tv/signals/signals.html
 
 
 
--
 
 
Best regards,
Chris  2E0ILY                           mailto:chris@chriswilson.tv
 
My        part        time        LF        grabber       is       at
http://www.chriswilson.tv/grabber.html
 
 
 

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