Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 104; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u22Bmhdm014525 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 12:48:44 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ab5Cm-0007Ct-5z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 11:44:36 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ab5Cl-0007Ck-Pn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 11:44:35 +0000 Received: from brian.netcom.co.uk ([217.72.171.64]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ab5Cj-0003ub-J0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 11:44:34 +0000 Received: from sb.abelian.org (i-194-106-52-83.freedom2surf.net [194.106.52.83]) by brian.netcom.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C933200DE for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:21:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sb.abelian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FF428A0135 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:44:30 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <56D6D21E.9060008@abelian.org> Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 11:44:30 +0000 From: Paul Nicholson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <8D3420CFDD5DAA0-600-6AE9F0@webmail-vm167.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8D3420CFDD5DAA0-600-6AE9F0@webmail-vm167.sysops.aol.com> X-Scan-Signature: 49f0f587e44d6711c57b8a4e950ba850 Subject: Re: LF: MF: EbNaut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7164 I wrote the other day about seeing a transient that I thought was bouncing off the primary center. Now after dismantling and measuring a few things I find that transient was reflecting from the LPF which follows the transformer. The transient width was about the same as the FET switching time and it came back to the drain of the off transistor at a voltage many times higher than the supply. Pinging the transformer itself I can see no sign of any transmission line behaviour up to 50MHz, the turns are just too tightly coupled. In fact the coax cable with outer as primary and inner as secondary has a very tight coupling. 351uH per winding and 1uH leakage inductance. I wont be using coax again though, the inability to tap the secondary is a severe limitation. So I learn that it's no good just looking at the bandpass and bandstop of the LPF, one might have to consider transient reflections because they end up back at the drain. Almost all the departure from idealness of the drain waveform was down to the LPF and not the transformer. I still haven't accounted for the excessive heat of the windings when the primary center is AC grounded. The divided down 477.69kHz multiplier output was compared with a GPSDO reference and the RMS jitter was less than 2 degrees over timescales up to 60 minutes. Here is a plot of the 2-sample RMS jitter over a run of eight hours http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/160302a.gif The plot means for example, that the average difference between two samples of the phase taken 512 seconds apart is 1.04 degrees. The plotted phase is scaled back up to the tx frequency. The jitter at the soundcard output of EbSynth is one ninth of the plotted value. This pretty much convinces me that the spreading seen by Markus was unlikely to caused by my tx. Some doubt remains because I'm using the same GPSDO (Trimble) to reference both EbSynth and the phase comparison. Also the PA and antenna were not in the loop. The phase comparison is done using vtsid from vlfrx-tools, sampling the phase 100 times per second. -- Paul Nicholson --