Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tAT2hLi2029835 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 03:43:21 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1a2rty-0001h4-41 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 02:39:46 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1a2rtx-0001gv-C5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 02:39:45 +0000 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1a2rsx-0001hp-TL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 02:39:44 +0000 Received: from dovecot03.posteo.de (dovecot03.posteo.de [172.16.0.13]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC0FE2098B for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 03:38:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.posteo.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dovecot03.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3p7Ylp3rcvz5vMw for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2015 03:38:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <565A6526.4010102@posteo.de> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2015 03:38:30 +0100 From: DK7FC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <56587F40.5070709@posteo.de> <87FFCE57-D2D7-4616-B5E8-B84CD819C685@talktalk.net> <5658E894.6090208@posteo.de> <82B8809C-36E5-4731-8A4B-002BD4465B12@talktalk.net> <5658EE97.2020107@posteo.de> In-Reply-To: X-Scan-Signature: 09c1a181dc7b5fd4ce37590584a561d1 Subject: Re: 3 phase (was LF: G3KEV) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020509000103020100050402" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5412 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020509000103020100050402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi John, We all know what we're doing! Apart from the availability of a tree phase supply (nearly every German household has a three phase system available, for the kitchen oven at least, which an be tapped :-) ) the high DC voltages can be difficult to handle because the voltage will be about 560V when using a B6 rectifier. However, for a H bridge design you could use 900V FETs which are very common these days :-) Quite interesting. It would be a chance for me to finally reach the 1W ERP limit. Worth to think about. 73, Stefan Am 28.11.2015 18:17, schrieb John Rabson: > Andy, > > I have worked with three-phase systems in my career and I agree with > you that 3 phase can be useful – *Provided You Know What You Are > Doing*. Not only is it 300 Hz ripple but it can be as low as 4.2% > before you even start filtering. > > Having met you, I have no doubt you take great care to protect exposed > parts, and take other essential steps. > > What would worry me would be somebody tinkering with such things and > *not* knowing where their areas of ignorance lay (the same goes for > *any* high-voltage system). > > John F5VLF > >> On 28 Nov 2015, at 17:26, Andy Talbot > > wrote: >> >> What's wrong with that ? >> Sounds an excellent idea for a QRO transmitter. 300Hz ripple - much >> easier to filter out. >> >> My 137kHz Tx runs from rectified (single phase) mains - the isolation >> is provided in the ferrite output transformer and FET drive pot-core >> >> A school we once went around with long leads and an AVO identifying >> sockets to be found on all three of the phases. That was so that, >> using extension leads, we could bring them all into the lab to get a >> three phase motor running. Such interesting things could be done in >> schools in the 1970's >> >> Andy G4JNT >> >> >> On 28 November 2015 at 15:52, John Rabson > > wrote: >> >> In the early days of 73 kHz I believe a Luxembourg station built a >> transmitter which was powered off full-wave rectified three-phase >> mains without an isolating transformer. NOT the best way of doing things! >> >> John F5VLF > > john.rabson07@gmail.com > > Researching history of RABSON, BLACKSHAW, GAUNTLETT, VERLANDER and > ROBSONNE > > > > --------------020509000103020100050402 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi John,

We all know what we're doing!
Apart from the availability of a tree phase supply (nearly every German household has a three phase system available, for the kitchen oven at least, which an be tapped :-) ) the high DC voltages can be difficult to handle because the voltage will be about 560V when using a B6 rectifier. However, for a H bridge design you could use 900V FETs which are very common these days :-)
Quite interesting. It would be a chance for me to finally reach the 1W ERP limit. Worth to think about.

73, Stefan

Am 28.11.2015 18:17, schrieb John Rabson:
Andy,

I have worked with three-phase systems in my career and I agree with you that 3 phase can be useful – Provided You Know What You Are Doing. Not only is it 300 Hz ripple but it can be as low as 4.2% before you even start filtering.

Having met you, I have no doubt you take great care to protect exposed parts, and take other essential steps. 

What would worry me would be somebody tinkering with such things and not knowing where their areas of ignorance lay (the same goes for any high-voltage system).

John F5VLF
 
On 28 Nov 2015, at 17:26, Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@gmail.com> wrote:

What's wrong with that ?
Sounds an excellent idea for a QRO transmitter.   300Hz ripple - much easier to filter out.

My 137kHz Tx runs from rectified (single phase) mains - the isolation is provided in the ferrite output transformer and FET drive pot-core

A school we once went around with long leads and an AVO  identifying sockets to be found on all three of the phases.  That was so that, using extension leads, we could bring them all into the lab to get a three phase motor running.   Such interesting things could be done in schools in the 1970's

Andy G4JNT


On 28 November 2015 at 15:52, John Rabson <john.rabson07@gmail.com> wrote:

In the early days of 73 kHz I believe a Luxembourg station built a transmitter which was powered off full-wave rectified three-phase mains without an isolating transformer. NOT the best way of doing things!

John F5VLF

john.rabson07@gmail.com

Researching history of RABSON, BLACKSHAW, GAUNTLETT, VERLANDER and ROBSONNE




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