Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t4UMhUSN032608 for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 00:43:30 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YypR4-0001Av-M0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 23:40:58 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YypR4-0001Am-6l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 23:40:58 +0100 Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com ([209.85.212.172]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from <73dk7fc@googlemail.com>) id 1YypR1-0002Bc-RH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 23:40:57 +0100 Received: by wifw1 with SMTP id w1so63014593wif.0 for ; Sat, 30 May 2015 15:40:54 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=googlemail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=DB/CrSLXZxtBPmTX9Uh8MVSpVQpNWeV5TO8LFFWsytc=; b=nO7XqLS0BX2dy8nmIoHqIL8PEmdJyxFj9HMS1zD9czx9dd8ZhYPf+T756QGFMqGBc8 ypdr2v0qkWHzuif+mywf5UEn7sr/OVR9RQWqlr8nMJTmWHeu9AHyB6kAUGcOnqOjYy4B J0iWXwGyN4m/2fPhulQjuh5OXus8izB8SagMwOZDHuqKQLAuIPFfWaDX/UoOCD0jtj3K Jy6mVHDp35Y1a1d9Fqy552is7bbeqaALGhoVyknPmrsSqY7jhKI6jeR6BoMoNsdRyaco 99DgJNcpOQoHy35VCAI6Tbnn76+4DImjqo9efQQylb8ZZCSTRBKVTAnFTlqdRD7mJJQh HZUw== X-Received: by 10.180.12.228 with SMTP id b4mr7525997wic.92.1433025654283; Sat, 30 May 2015 15:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.206.22.206] (pc206.iup.uni-heidelberg.de. [129.206.22.206]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fb3sm9334011wib.21.2015.05.30.15.40.53 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 30 May 2015 15:40:53 -0700 (PDT) From: DK7FC <73dk7fc@googlemail.com> X-Google-Original-From: DK7FC <73dk7fc@gmail.com> Message-ID: <556A3C74.9080709@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 00:40:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5568E23F.5070907@posteo.de> <98550314F4E343FF8ACABAF3E7D5FC8B@MichaelSappPC> <6631D15870CA4874B8A428964C437E00@White> <1CE4CCC3376A4525A8C6F7ED165F3934@MichaelSappPC> <42B082B94058476DA1B49C80A0AA4DB9@White> In-Reply-To: <42B082B94058476DA1B49C80A0AA4DB9@White> X-Scan-Signature: b7a5be947ef172afc0af98d5f0cdfe32 Subject: Re: LF: Almost Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030403090001020908050301" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3369 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030403090001020908050301 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Markus, It's 474.2 kHz dial ;-) 73 Am 31.05.2015 00:36, schrieb Markus Vester: > Hi Mike, > you won't need separate receivers and PCs just for observing WSPR at > both speeds. Frequency bands are adjacent and based on the same dial > frequency (475.2 kHz USB). All you need to do is run WSPR-X twice on > the same PC and same soundcard, and manually select different speed > settings in the two instances. It has been said that it may be to have > two WSPR-X installations in separate folders, but at least for me just > starting the same program twice seems to do the job nicely. > 73, Markus > *From:* Michael Sapp > *Sent:* Sunday, May 31, 2015 12:21 AM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* re:Re: LF: Almost > > Hello Markus: Ah, similar noise gremlins all over the globe.... > During spring cleaning of all the EWE connections last week, I added a > perimeter ground wire around the four ground rods of the two EWE > antennas (Think of a square area with an X inside, 10:1 matching xfmr > each end of each EWE). The extra grounding appeared to reduce the > power line harmonic situation in the 10~20 kHz range. It will take a > few weeks of listening to evaluate.... > I can split my LF converter IF output and run two receivers and PCs. > But the IF radios, PCs, and sound cards are not identical which makes > comparative tests rather subjective. I have tried that twice in the > past week but no joy on 630m wspr2 & 15. May give that a try again > this evening if no "Blizten-storms"... > 73, Mike wa3tts > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Markus Vester > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:56 PM > *Subject:* Re: LF: Almost > > Hi Mike, > thanks for the explanations, nice work indeed! > I am are also plagued by a lot of local interference from our > dense suburban neighbourhood. especially on MF there seems to be a > surprising diversity of signatures: there's the plain common SMPS > hash, usually 100 Hz FM-modulated across several kHz. At times I > get what looks like just plain white noise, with variable power > density. But then there are also apparently crystal controlled > carriers going on and off, often with sidebands which sometimes > mimick intelligent modulation. > Are you currently monitoring WSPR-2 only, or also -15? > All the best, > Markus (DF6NM) > *From:* Michael Sapp > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2015 8:33 PM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Subject:* Re: LF: Almost > > Markus: I do not think the QRM signals are spurious. I have built > the W1VD preselector for 475~500 kHz range and the offending > signals are still present when the preselector is used. Same with > the FZ-02 filter. There are some commercial and retail shops to > my NE about 300~400 meters away, possible that is the source. > However, the offending QRM signals are not consistent in frequency > or strength from one day to the next. QRM signals are not very > strong, but strong enough to interfere with a -27 to -30 SNR > desired signal. > I use a pair of crossed EWE antennas to have four-way selectable > cardio patterns for NE, SW, SE, and NW directional reception. If I > switch to the NW direction, the QRM signals go away, but then > directivity to DK7FC would be about 4~5dB down. To the SW and SE > directions some QRM sources disappear, and other QRM sources > appear. I may try some phase steering between the two EWE > antennas. It is an ongoing learning process. Random chance could > always prevail, so I continue to listen, tinker, and occasionally > even learn something ~:). 73, > Mike wa3tts > PS: I have received several F5WK wspr2 captures on 630m this last > December.... > https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkfcl9gfyac5nlm/F5WKMAP.JPG?dl=0 > https://www.dropbox.com/s/fzox0bk492h20dq/IMG_4142.JPG?dl=0 > > ----- Original Message ----- a > *From:* Markus Vester > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2015 6:20 AM > *Subject:* Re: LF: Almost > > Looks like Stefan ran into a Loran line... but wait, Loran is > no longer there in North America, and anyway we're on MF not > LF. Mike any idea what is causing those spurs? > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG (direct > link) > 73, Markus (DF6NM) > > *From:* Michael Sapp > *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2015 4:41 AM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Subject:* LF: Almost > > Stefan: Close, but no cigar..... local QRM..... > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG?dl=0 > 73 Mike wa3tts > --------------030403090001020908050301 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Markus,

It's 474.2 kHz dial ;-)
73

Am 31.05.2015 00:36, schrieb Markus Vester:
Hi Mike,
 
you won't need separate receivers and PCs just for observing WSPR at both speeds. Frequency bands are adjacent and based on the same dial frequency (475.2 kHz USB). All you need to do is run WSPR-X twice on the same PC and same soundcard, and manually select different speed settings in the two instances. It has been said that it may be to have two WSPR-X installations in separate folders, but at least for me just starting the same program twice seems to do the job nicely.
 
73, Markus
 
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 12:21 AM
Subject: re:Re: LF: Almost

Hello Markus:  Ah, similar noise gremlins all over the globe.... During spring cleaning of all the EWE connections last week, I added a perimeter ground wire around the four ground rods of the two EWE antennas (Think of a square area with an X inside, 10:1 matching xfmr each end of each EWE). The extra grounding appeared to reduce the power line harmonic situation in the 10~20 kHz range. It will take a few weeks of listening to evaluate....
 
I can split my LF converter IF output and run two receivers and PCs. But the IF radios, PCs, and sound cards are not identical which makes comparative tests rather subjective.   I have tried that twice in the past week but no joy on 630m wspr2 & 15.  May give that a try again this evening if no "Blizten-storms"...
 
73, Mike wa3tts 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Almost

Hi Mike,
 
thanks for the explanations, nice work indeed!
 
I am are also plagued by a lot of local interference from our dense suburban neighbourhood. especially on MF there seems to be a surprising diversity of signatures: there's the plain common SMPS hash, usually 100 Hz FM-modulated across several kHz. At times I get what looks like just plain white noise, with variable power density. But then there are also apparently crystal controlled carriers going on and off, often with sidebands which sometimes mimick intelligent modulation.
 
Are you currently monitoring WSPR-2 only, or also -15?
 
All the best,
Markus (DF6NM)
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Almost

Markus:  I do not think the QRM signals are spurious. I have built the W1VD preselector for 475~500 kHz range and the offending signals are still present when the preselector is used.  Same with the FZ-02 filter.  There are some commercial and retail shops to my NE about 300~400 meters away, possible that is the source.  However, the offending QRM signals are not consistent in frequency or strength from one day to the next.  QRM signals are not very strong, but strong enough to interfere with a -27 to -30 SNR desired signal.  
 
  I use a pair of crossed EWE antennas to have four-way selectable cardio patterns for NE, SW, SE, and NW directional reception. If I switch to the NW direction, the QRM signals go away, but then directivity to DK7FC would be about 4~5dB down.  To the SW and SE directions some QRM sources disappear, and other QRM sources appear.  I may try some phase steering between the two EWE antennas. It is an ongoing learning process. Random chance could always prevail, so I continue to listen, tinker, and occasionally even learn something ~:). 73,
 
Mike wa3tts
 
PS: I have received several  F5WK wspr2 captures on 630m this last December....
 
----- Original Message ----- a
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Almost

Looks like Stefan ran into a Loran line... but wait, Loran is no longer there in North America, and anyway we're on MF not LF. Mike any idea what is causing those spurs?
 
 
73, Markus (DF6NM)

Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 4:41 AM
Subject: LF: Almost

Stefan: Close, but no cigar..... local QRM.....
 
 
73 Mike wa3tts
 
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