Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, DRUG_DOSAGE,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t4JMQc3g025662 for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 00:26:38 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YupvY-0005f9-9x for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 May 2015 23:23:56 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YupvX-0005f0-PG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 May 2015 23:23:55 +0100 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.210.211]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YupvV-0001vr-Cx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 May 2015 23:23:54 +0100 Received: from crusoe.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (crusoe.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.22.248]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t4JMNqif013659 for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 00:23:52 +0200 Received: from [129.206.22.206] (pc206.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.22.206]) by crusoe.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58057E0482 for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 00:23:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <555BB7F8.80808@posteo.de> Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 00:23:52 +0200 From: DK7FC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B106C70@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B106C70@servigilant.vigilant.local> X-Scan-Signature: 6bb858db23df2b82c4f5a8cb512b45b1 Subject: Re: LF: 23:16 136 G6AVK de EB3FRN-1 Op32 Deep Search 725 mi -40 dB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040503000109020703010900" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3156 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040503000109020703010900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Luis, Am 19.05.2015 19:03, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández: > I have been using the vertical antenna (11m really) as a first Tx Ae, with NO loading coil > No coil? That is the reason! With a correctly resonated and matched antenna you will easily 'gain' 40 dB! 55 pF on MF is about -j 6.1 kOhm. If you run a PA which applies a constant voltage to the antenna, the current is 50/6100 times lower than at 50 Ohm (not the same TX power of course. It is just an assumption to calculate something). Then the *ERP is about 42 dB lower!* It is quite easy to wind a coil for MF. For that antenna i would recommend a 20 cm diameter tube and simple 1.5mm^2 electrical wire. I used a similar motor driven variometer https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/MF%20motor%20variometer%20coil.JPG on MF, until there was a HV breaktrough at 1.000 W ERP: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/20141027_203720.jpg > and 11m wire hanging down as counter poise. There is really now metallic structure on the top of such a building? I cannot imagine. There must have been lightnig strikes from time to time. If not, the next strike will show you where the next earth connection can be found :-) > The building structure is made of metal reinforced concrete. Probably the choice to get a counter poise > is the fire extinguish wet column, which runs inside the building. A true metal pipe filled with water and not connected > to houses, just to hoses for emergency use. Sounds very useful! I would use that. > I can also run a wire down parallel to this pipe but not sure > if can connect it to true ground at the bottom > > Which feeding system and coil do you suggest ? > I suggest something like shown in this schematic: A 50 Ohm cable, a galvanically decoupling transformer which is matching the residual losses(+ the small radiation resistance) to 50 Ohm and a variometer: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/LF/schematics/LF%20H%20bridge%20PA%2C%20DK7FC.png > Perfectly understood the path stability problems on MF Stefan. At the moment I keep QRSS on 476.177 > and got reports from EA1FAQ, EA4NZ and EB3FRN. I have set a kinf of "contest" sending different messages > that they have to copy. This are some winner screenshots. Tx time for DFCW is 60 sec. Will try shorter > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EA1FAQ%20Rx%20QRSS%20MF%2015%20mayo%202015.jpg > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EB3FRN%20copy%20EA5DOM%20QRSS%20476KHz.bmp > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EA4NZ%20Rx%20QRSS%20MF.jpg > > LF/MF > Always learning ! Always fun :-) > > 73 de Luis > EA5DOM > Very nice! Keep the band alive down there in EA. (Uuuh, reminds me that i've not really been active in the recent time, at least not in CW). I'm looking forward to your progress! 73, Stefan --------------040503000109020703010900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Luis,

Am 19.05.2015 19:03, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández: 
I have been using the vertical antenna (11m really) as a first Tx Ae, with NO loading coil
No coil? That is the reason! With a correctly resonated and matched antenna you will easily 'gain' 40 dB!
55 pF on MF is about -j 6.1 kOhm. If you run a PA which applies a constant voltage to the antenna, the current is 50/6100 times lower than at 50 Ohm (not the same TX power of course. It is just an assumption to calculate something). Then the ERP is about 42 dB lower!
It is quite easy to wind a coil for MF. For that antenna i would recommend a 20 cm diameter tube and simple 1.5mm^2 electrical wire.
I used a similar motor driven variometer https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/MF%20motor%20variometer%20coil.JPG on MF, until there was a HV breaktrough at 1.000 W ERP: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/20141027_203720.jpg

and 11m wire hanging down as counter poise.
There is really now metallic structure on the top of such a building? I cannot imagine. There must have been lightnig strikes from time to time. If not, the next strike will show you where the next earth connection can be found :-)

The building structure is made of metal reinforced concrete. Probably the choice to get a counter poise
is the fire extinguish wet column, which runs inside the building. A true metal pipe filled with water and not connected 
to houses, just to hoses for emergency use.
Sounds very useful! I would use that.
 I can also run a wire down parallel to this pipe but not sure
if can connect it to true ground at the bottom

Which feeding system and coil do you suggest ?
I suggest something like shown in this schematic: A 50 Ohm cable, a galvanically decoupling transformer which is matching the residual losses(+ the small radiation resistance) to 50 Ohm and a variometer: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/LF/schematics/LF%20H%20bridge%20PA%2C%20DK7FC.png

Perfectly understood the path stability problems on MF Stefan. At the moment I keep QRSS on 476.177
and got reports from EA1FAQ, EA4NZ and EB3FRN. I have set a kinf of "contest" sending different messages
that they have to copy. This are some winner screenshots. Tx time for DFCW is 60 sec. Will try shorter

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EA1FAQ%20Rx%20QRSS%20MF%2015%20mayo%202015.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EB3FRN%20copy%20EA5DOM%20QRSS%20476KHz.bmp

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Docs/EA4NZ%20Rx%20QRSS%20MF.jpg

LF/MF
Always learning ! Always fun :-)

73 de Luis
EA5DOM
Very nice! Keep the band alive down there in EA. (Uuuh, reminds me that i've not really been active in the recent time, at least not in CW).

I'm looking forward to your progress!

73, Stefan --------------040503000109020703010900--