Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t07F8s8I014922 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 16:08:54 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Y8s71-0002Lx-Cf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:01:31 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Y8s70-0002Lo-Tb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:01:30 +0000 Received: from parrot.netcom.co.uk ([217.72.171.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Y8s6y-0001cZ-A8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:01:29 +0000 Received: from sb.abelian.org (i-194-106-52-83.freedom2surf.net [194.106.52.83]) by parrot.netcom.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF71E32740A for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 15:00:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sb.abelian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661C328A1374 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 15:01:27 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <54AD4A47.2050707@abelian.org> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:01:27 +0000 From: Paul Nicholson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Scan-Signature: 32d4aaaf019758ff5a0d8e92eec683e6 Subject: VLF: Path measurement by group delay Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1850 I wrote: > A challenging experiment would be to measure the actual path > length. This requires transmitting two fairly close frequencies > either simultaneously or alternating with FSK. No sooner said than done! Markus DF6NM just happens to have a servo controlled variometer which samples the radiated field and adjusts the tuning to maintain the phase of the transmission - even when toggling between two frequencies. This, in conjunction with Spectrum Lab's ability to generate a carrier with absolute phase, enabled the experiment to proceed. We used two frequencies 60Hz apart, alternating between them at 5 minute intervals. Some arithmetic shows that for the 60Hz separation, the group delay corresponds to 13.88 km of path per degree of phase difference between the two carriers. Markus made a long transmission (after some mechanical troubles) with 10uW ERP, beginning just before 2015-01-06 11:30 UT and the received signal was analysed at Todmorden in a 4 hour window (sufficient to get good S/N for accurate phase), sliding the window in 1 hour steps. Table below lists the S/N of the two carriers, their phase (lead) and phase difference, and the resulting path length: Period S/N dB Phases Diff Path 11:30 to 15:30 19.0/17.9 -7.4/-84.3 76.9 1068 km 12:30 to 16:30 18.5/17.2 -11.1/-85.2 74.1 1029 km 13:30 to 17:30 17.8/16.9 -13.5/-85.6 72.0 1000 km 14:30 to 18:30 16.3/16.5 -20.6/-94.7 74.1 1029 km 15:30 to 19:30 15.9/17.3 -21.2/-102.9 81.7 1135 km 16:30 to 20:30 16.8/17.3 -15.4/-111.2 95.8 1330 km 17:30 to 21:30 16.5/17.0 -17.2/-113.3 96.1 1335 km 18:30 to 22:30 16.9/15.4 -23.7/-111.0 87.3 1212 km 19:30 to 23:30 15.9/13.8 -28.7/-101.9 73.3 1017 km 20:30 to 00:30 15.8/13.2 -30.6/-95.5 65.0 902 km 21:30 to 01:30 16.2/13.7 -27.9/-82.2 54.3 754 km 22:30 to 02:30 16.3/15.0 -18.5/-84.8 66.2 920 km 23:30 to 03:30 18.8/15.8 -15.2/-88.6 73.4 1019 km The great circle distance to Todmorden is 1028 km. Phase measurement error with the stronger signals, around +/- 60km. For the weaker signals, about +/- 180km. Looks like the results are upset at night due to multi-path interference. At VLF the ground wave is still significant at 1 Mm and there will be several sky wave components in the mix. Not a bad result for 10uW ERP. A stronger signal would probably not have improved the result, given the multi-path propagation. A longer range test would be less affected by multiple paths. Would require smaller frequency shift: eg about 12Hz for 6000 km. 12Hz shift is difficult though, without a strong signal. 17 dB S/N would give an error of about 500km on a 6 Mm path. -- Paul Nicholson http://abelian.org/ --