Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id sBMM2ZDE007405 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 23:02:35 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Y3AxH-0001gN-Od for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 21:55:55 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Y3AxH-0001gE-0H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 21:55:55 +0000 Received: from mail-wi0-f180.google.com ([209.85.212.180]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from <73dk7fc@googlemail.com>) id 1Y3AxF-0000wv-2F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 21:55:53 +0000 Received: by mail-wi0-f180.google.com with SMTP id n3so9211779wiv.13 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 13:55:51 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=googlemail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=tt22cTsXbytwBn7693apPFyKPCfsnm5ejNyvVGmxIKk=; b=O6IdT8bnpjBhep6eu/13sqkuIrZETdvhtQ5Vx2uAyBABMjNtYtpK9k4YKwh0ugOhMn Cvj6A59O3xHdJI10o6xF0swtBFv3OgokVhyh7fYZmeCqCkKbxtWKguk0XjhStVhqHtVp FFNT1cAPALhQK3cACk9fByBIoWWJJV/Pz5z50I42N1QMZoCc8y+rUQueZm4269uZXLmw Ww89gPPbuDanIjr4Ptz07zVMxeDhyqbPyCUe7AY/NEHV1i+YSNvtzGKUm9o54m9iD3WP aZEBpvtpmoUj1AFrjVOCTMh9RiC3q6u7mC9M/L6pa3ZnMQ82b7NZHLgn+RQhVUmVYX87 QcOQ== X-Received: by 10.194.19.234 with SMTP id i10mr3068892wje.40.1419285351796; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 13:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [129.206.22.206] (pc206.iup.uni-heidelberg.de. [129.206.22.206]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id je12sm14812719wic.22.2014.12.22.13.55.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 22 Dec 2014 13:55:51 -0800 (PST) From: DK7FC <73dk7fc@googlemail.com> X-Google-Original-From: DK7FC <73dk7fc@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54989365.9080906@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:55:49 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <00b601d01d18$87884620$9698d260$@nifty.com> <5A42D7F671FE4DBEAEAD33E87D02E740@F6CNIHPg7>,<5498556C.4070605@gmail.com> <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A2349E96D@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be> In-Reply-To: <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A2349E96D@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be> X-Scan-Signature: b42857a5fad6e32377447282c21f62b1 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Japan on 475 kHz. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060004090206060602020300" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1578 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060004090206060602020300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Rik, But we're talking about EU <-> JA, not EU<-> US_west_coast. A little little difference on 630m, apart from the absolute distances. And if i have to wait for the next sun spot minimum, then propagation on both bands would be NOT similar because it is possible on 160m NOW. 73, Stefan Am 22.12.2014 20:47, schrieb Rik Strobbe: > > Stefan, > > some patience might help. Wait for the next sunspot minimum. > > In 2008 transatlantic WSPR was very common, even for stations with > just some 100 mW ERP. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens DK7FC [73dk7fc@googlemail.com] > *Verzonden:* maandag 22 december 2014 18:31 > *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Onderwerp:* Re: LF: Re: Japan on 475 kHz. > > > Am 22.12.2014 17:17, schrieb Guyé André: >> [...] >> I agree with you, Mal. For DX, the Propagation on both MF BANDS 160 >> and 630 meters similar. The only diference is the ERP power, because >> on 630 m the standard ham antennas have not 100 % of efficiency, HI. > >> Propagation on both MF BANDS similar >> de MAL/G3KEV > > Never ever! I saw regular WSPR decodes with 2W TX power (if it is > true!) on 160m between EU and VK. No chance on 630m except some very > very very very very very very very very very very very very very very > very very very very very very very very very very very very very very > very very rare events like prooved by F6CNI :-) > I've put out several 10000 WSPR sequences now, with decent power. Best > distances were to the US east coast, TF, EA, upper LA and near Moscow. > Not a single one above 2500km over land. > And most amateur antennas are not 100% efficient on 160m as well. But > 1W ERP is possible on MF for most i assume. In more than 2 years we > saw now that WSPR from EU does not propagate farer than 2000 km, > except some TA detections, i.e. mostly water on the path. However it > is a challenge to leave detections in 2000 km over land. And Japan is > about 9000 km over land, from here, or France or UK. > So let's hope for the very rare events. Better try LF instead, no > choke :-) > > 73, Stefan --------------060004090206060602020300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rik,

But we're talking about EU <-> JA, not EU<-> US_west_coast. A little little difference on 630m, apart from the absolute distances.
And if i have to wait for the next sun spot minimum, then propagation on both bands would be NOT similar because it is possible on 160m NOW.

73, Stefan

Am 22.12.2014 20:47, schrieb Rik Strobbe:

Stefan,

 

some patience might help. Wait for the next sunspot minimum.

In 2008 transatlantic WSPR was very common, even for stations with just some 100 mW ERP.

 

73, Rik  ON7YD

 

Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens DK7FC [73dk7fc@googlemail.com]
Verzonden: maandag 22 december 2014 18:31
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: Japan on 475 kHz.


Am 22.12.2014 17:17, schrieb Guyé André:
[...]
 
I agree with you, Mal. For DX, the Propagation on both MF BANDS 160 and 630 meters similar. The only diference is the ERP power, because on 630 m the standard ham antennas have not 100 % of efficiency, HI.

Propagation on both MF BANDS similar
de MAL/G3KEV

Never ever! I saw regular WSPR decodes with 2W TX power (if it is true!) on 160m between EU and VK. No chance on 630m except some  very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very rare events like prooved by F6CNI :-)
I've put out several 10000 WSPR sequences now, with decent power. Best distances were to the US east coast, TF, EA, upper LA and near Moscow. Not a single one above 2500km over land.
And most amateur antennas are not 100% efficient on 160m as well. But 1W ERP is possible on MF for most i assume. In more than 2 years we saw now that WSPR from EU does not propagate farer than 2000 km, except some TA detections, i.e. mostly water on the path. However it is a challenge to leave detections in 2000 km over land. And Japan is about 9000 km over land, from here, or France or UK.
So let's hope for the very rare events. Better try LF instead, no choke :-)

73, Stefan
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