Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1169; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id s99L27NK027679 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 23:02:08 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1XcKma-0000lh-1H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:57:56 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1XcKmZ-0000lY-Mk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:57:55 +0100 Received: from mail-lb0-f170.google.com ([209.85.217.170]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <73dk7fc@googlemail.com>) id 1XcKmX-00042G-MR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:57:54 +0100 Received: by mail-lb0-f170.google.com with SMTP id u10so1954256lbd.15 for ; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 13:57:52 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=googlemail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=nH5kVxLXuSpNh82cTvgHm2drM/Fz25ruyAUmBlNg9fQ=; b=E7C2q7eKS69VmX1vW3yLdPlHEgEbyHbT7sveQCAv80b5Iifboz1c/Lv0MvTxaSkxz8 hS4hoRy8Gho5ZKHlRq6z/Ytkdcluw2ktsJFaxfl3PKALyRWCsopPMppVGfJ4s3oU+/hT m0Ci/JIyWq79A3x5KnvXzH7BsoOEkD8NZqCTziTO4QBs83FHt0GNqCHVwIKkgAZtccDz O8oiVpIt1C8BIaJpNXLlO2cMwTlix57xCz5QAugFfkPCUyVvqk5aIhp9LgqE3dRZCfso ma//eX71Fn6/sVkowUk2l5Z8bmecBkHKTCNtJ8aEP77evz3GC8wFSf/3K29vkAyerOR1 F4Eg== X-Received: by 10.112.137.162 with SMTP id qj2mr55247lbb.60.1412888272165; Thu, 09 Oct 2014 13:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.206.22.206] (pc206.iup.uni-heidelberg.de. [129.206.22.206]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w2sm1255477lad.30.2014.10.09.13.57.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 09 Oct 2014 13:57:51 -0700 (PDT) From: DK7FC <73dk7fc@googlemail.com> X-Google-Original-From: DK7FC <73dk7fc@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5436F6CC.5070504@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 22:57:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <8D1B1F63855FC23-95C-9269@webmail-vm139.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8D1B1F63855FC23-95C-9269@webmail-vm139.sysops.aol.com> X-Scan-Signature: cbf9d9751ac5f32708197d03fa6d8d74 Subject: Re: LF: ELF communications ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080506030101070600040105" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 737 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080506030101070600040105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Markus, Thanks for the calculations. We will see the results. I do take care. In my promotion project at TU Darmstadt i daily worked with a capacitor battery having 15 kV / 12000 uF, see an image showing 1/3 of the battery at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/IMG_8073.JPG Would be fine for a tube PA ! :-) Once again the PA has some EMC problems and i cannot run the full power. Hope to fix that tonite... 73, Stefan Am 09.10.2014 18:35, schrieb Markus Vester: > Stefan, > this could work. In the capacitive near-field range, the electrical > field would be > E = voltage * capacitance * effective height / (2 pi epsilon0) / > distance ^3 > With 10 kV on your antenna capacitance and height, you'd get about > 0.15 mV/m at 2.4 km, maybe 14 dB stronger than ZEVS. > Take care! Touching 10 kV on 136 kHz will severly burn you. But on 136 > Hz it would kill you, unless the current is safely limited to a few mA. > 73, Markus > > > -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- > Von: DK7FC <73dk7fc@googlemail.com> > An: rsgb_lf_group > Verschickt: Do, 9 Okt 2014 2:51 pm > Betreff: LF: ELF communications ? > > > > > Hi ELF, > > > > This afternoon i'm attempting to transmit on my INV-L on 136.172 Hz (not > > kHz!). Just preparing my H bridge VLF PA and i intend to use an old 10 > > kV transformer which i got from an old furnance (to inflame the oil > > stream), see > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/VLF/10kV%20Trafo.jpg > > > > Will that work on 2.4 km distance? It's well inside the near field. > > Which mode could be possible? QRSS-3? CW? > > The 2200000 m band, or 2.2 Mm band :-) A near field of 350 km !! > > I hope i can apply 10 kV to the antenna. It will not be resonated. And > > maybe i will see harmonics as well, because the input is rectangular... > > > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > > --------------080506030101070600040105 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Markus,

Thanks for the calculations. We will see the results.
I do take care. In my promotion project at TU Darmstadt i daily worked with a capacitor battery having 15 kV / 12000 uF, see an image showing 1/3 of the battery at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/IMG_8073.JPG Would be fine for a tube PA ! :-)

Once again the PA has some EMC problems and i cannot run the full power. Hope to fix that tonite...

73, Stefan


Am 09.10.2014 18:35, schrieb Markus Vester:
Stefan,
 
this could work. In the capacitive near-field range, the electrical field would be
 
 E = voltage * capacitance * effective height / (2 pi epsilon0) / distance ^3
 
With 10 kV on your antenna capacitance and height, you'd get about 0.15 mV/m at 2.4 km, maybe 14 dB stronger than ZEVS.
 
Take care! Touching 10 kV on 136 kHz will severly burn you. But on 136 Hz it would kill you, unless the current is safely limited to a few mA. 
 
73, Markus


-----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: DK7FC <73dk7fc@googlemail.com>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Do, 9 Okt 2014 2:51 pm
Betreff: LF: ELF communications ?




Hi ELF, 

  

 This afternoon i'm attempting to transmit on my INV-L on 136.172 Hz (not  

 kHz!). Just preparing my H bridge VLF PA and i intend to use an old 10  

 kV transformer which i got from an old furnance (to inflame the oil  

 stream), see  

 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/VLF/10kV%20Trafo.jpg 

  

 Will that work on 2.4 km distance? It's well inside the near field.  

 Which mode could be possible? QRSS-3? CW? 

 The 2200000 m band, or 2.2 Mm band :-) A near field of 350 km !! 

 I hope i can apply 10 kV to the antenna. It will not be resonated. And  

 maybe i will see harmonics as well, because the input is rectangular... 

  

 73, Stefan/DK7FC
--------------080506030101070600040105--