Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.143]) by air-da05.mail.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILINDA053-863d4dbd3684336; Sun, 01 May 2011 06:31:32 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3C59438000095; Sun, 1 May 2011 06:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1QGTvE-0001g8-Ng for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 May 2011 11:30:40 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1QGTvE-0001fz-8j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 May 2011 11:30:40 +0100 Received: from nm5.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.226]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1QGTvC-0005Qk-Vh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 May 2011 11:30:40 +0100 Received: from [217.146.183.210] by nm5.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2011 10:30:32 -0000 Received: from [217.146.183.74] by tm3.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2011 10:30:32 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1035.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2011 10:30:32 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 583685.2152.bm@omp1035.mail.ukl.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 80462 invoked from network); 1 May 2011 10:30:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=5sT9r66Hezoz0TCGGkGKaazQbjOZF2cloMcp4npiaFw5APC87hzf8oe7ndaSODlO8tIhZJVMgZFWnnUiDJ8XZYIqSKsY8pWZiLSwOtCDRiez8J/fPPJRv46IMMnH2r+5bUQZeqfJgu4qdsmHFCWQqlfCEkbZThMU+oOVow0D2cs= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1304245832; bh=s/3jU1LaB7WHeepiA7Qz00SVU6Do+iKGtxUfzjv9llA=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=eE1mEBdFpweyrMpJNVvW/k1QgMHqE49NkpirCugGHJp3D56RTJOm+f1sL+27fIgy04Ar5dfBWsE2BLS0nDKRqHCr2lo0y6beez82AEtW9981JbBHhk0fm4daFBdhDV4s4+M8ZH4dCRm56hEkzYzFYM7Ngn+76rjq9wD6MJ8rBAM= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@109.156.118.245 with login) by smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 01 May 2011 10:30:32 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: aVgxWB8VM1lRiYxM7RM.J62_PUeQhUopeRDQBnziKcso0ZU D5XX8KwQb8668BeTAfw2xIVx9rCbdFDIhDzvmuRZWLRHlfVe1AJdO011gNjo XchlQmRhSx80MUIUXM16XPgWtJ.4166iF2XmdiPedwCIuwp9TBhqZy_3Jjm. bi7ePdm9da5UVbtorOZBnRejVQQ9TghALt2PXFqU3kGnLk7XyQGz7GPB3iSW 7rOhVGyBpJi9JYyYf5Z7NYsfuOStIcagCYNCNnnYNjqgqsu09fZjvzPJz3oE nFb53CqZeuZpmeIeNkVIzrWR0NcjvIsk0PjZpMZI5PmQxgQFe1tnBpZn6.xY B.dc- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <53AF10453AF44765B62710310385A7A2@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 11:31:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18417 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,OBSCURED_EMAIL=1.68,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: ERP Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d280.1 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408f4dbd36825b0c X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear Luis, LF Group, To calculate ERP, one needs to determine the radiation resistance of the antenna, Rrad, and the antenna current, Iant. Rrad depends on the geometry of the antenna and the wavelength: Rrad = 160*pi^2*(Heff/lambda)^2 Where Heff is the "effective height" of the antenna, which depends on its shape and size. For simple wire antennas, Heff is nearly equal to the average height of the conductors, so for a plain vertical wire it is about 1/2 the overall height, and for a T or inverted L with very long horizontal wires, it is nearly equal to the overall height. You can find some formulae to work out Rrad for different antenna geometries at http://wireless.org.uk/on7yd/ . For your antenna, Heff works out to about 13m, so Rrad is about 0.74ohms at 500k. The ERP is then: Perp = D*Iant^2*Rrad D is the directivity of the antenna compared to a free-space half-wave dipole, for a short vertical over an infinite ground plane D is 1.8 (2.62dB). The information we do not have is Iant. The best way to find Iant is to measure it with a RF ammeter. Or you can calculate Iant if you know the TX power and the RF resistance at the feed point of the antenna. Typically antenna resistance at 500k might be between several ohms and several 10s of ohms - let us assume it is 20ohms for your antenna. In that case, with 35W TX power, Iant = 1.3A. Using the formula above, Perp = 2.3W. The actual ERP is likely to be reduced by a few dB if there are many buildings and trees, etc, around the antenna. A more definitive ERP measurement can be obtained by measuring the field strength, E, of the signal at distance d some km from the antenna, in which case: Perp = (Ed)^2 /49 Measuring E requires a calibrated antenna and receiver - but that is another story... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU