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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:03:52 +0200
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Subject: Re: LF: VLF in Canada
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Oh yes, Joe, if you have plenty of forest where you can play VLF games, 
i would also play with a dipole antenna. That's what i said to Laurence 
a few months ago. Just install a dipole with say 10 km length, adding 
100m each day and see how the performance increases. This will be an 
interesting project :-)
Maybe you remember my 700m long earth antenna which allowed me to be 
copied in 45 km distance in 4.5 mHz FFT BW, back in 2011 :-) Someone 
removed the antenna completely but if you have more space, just give it 
a try. I think that 8m above ground should be fine for any tests :-)
Nice to think about it :-)

73, GL, Stefan

Am 24.06.2014 12:55, schrieb Markus Vester:
> Joe, good to read this!
> Regarding the loading coil, I would agree with Stefan that a large 
> multiturn air coil is the best option. A laminated iron core would 
> suffer from excessive eddy current losses, and the effect of ferrites 
> is limited by saturation and hysteresis losses.
> My 1.3 henry coil consumed 2.3 km of 0.4 mm enameled wire, using 7 
> buckets with 480 turns on each:
> df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/VLF_110304-06/coil_legospacers.jpg.
> The advantage is that due to magnetic coupling between layers, you 
> will need less wire for a given inductance. And the inductance is 
> adjustable across a wide range, using spacers. Disadvantages are the 
> high electric field between layers limiting voltage capability, and 
> less effective heat removal from the inner buckets. Stuffing the 
> buckets too tightly into one another is surely not a good idea:
> df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/pictures/arced_coil_140601.jpg
> An nonresonant earth antenna across high resistivity rock could also 
> radiate moderately well, avoiding coil making and high voltage issues 
> altogether. But to compete with your vertical in terms of radiation 
> resistance, it would need to be really long, on the order of a couple 
> of miles. It will have magnetic loop directional pattern which may be 
> a disadvantage.
> For a transatlantic detection eg. by Paul Nicholson, a Rubidium or GPS 
> locked signal source would be very beneficial. Using SpecLab with 1pps 
> phase lock to eliminate soundcard output glitches has worked well for 
> DJ8WX, PA1SDB, and myself.
> Best of luck,
> Markus (DF6NM)
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung-----
> Von: DK7FC <73dk7fc@googlemail.com>
> An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Verschickt: Di, 24 Jun 2014 12:48 am
> Betreff: Re: LF: VLF in Canada
>
>
> Hi Joe,
>
>
>
> Fine to hear that you're give it a try. Please, don't ask Industry
>
> Canada if the 10mW is RF power of ERP!
>
>
>
> To get out a real signal on VLF, there is no alternative to a real large
>
> coil without ferrites! Think about the high voltages... But 100m of
>
> antenna wire is a good start. I remember 550 mH for my 100m kite
>
> antenna. For me it was 2000m of 0.4mm diameter wire :-) Nice work is
>
> that. Takes long but is a funny game :-)
>
>
>
> 73, GL, Stefan
>
>
>
> Am 23.06.2014 21:33, schriebjcraig@mun.ca  <mailto:jcraig@mun.ca>:
>
> Dear Group,
>
> I tried again to get an LOA  for VLF.  This time, the response from
>
> Industry Canada was favourable: 10 mW 8.0-8.3 kHz.  Yesterday, after a
>
> few slight rf burns, and  thanks to PA0RDT's miniwhip design and
>
> DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab and advice, VLF sigs on 8.277 kHz were heard at
>
> 200m from the 100m wire aerial. This was a reception outside my back
>
> yard!  10 watts from an 1970's keyboard amp (volume control set on 3)
>
> were stepped up with an xfmr to a lossy 500 ohm tuning coil peaked
>
> with a ferrite rod for maximum squeal at L=0.35 H.
>
> Is it possible for someone who is not especially enthralled by winding
>
> a mile of 0.7mm wire to use an iron core to make a VLF tuning coil?
>
> 73
>
> Joe VO1NA
>
>
>
>
>
>    

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Oh yes, Joe, if you have plenty of forest where you can play VLF games,
i would also play with a dipole antenna. That's what i said to Laurence
a few months ago. Just install a dipole with say 10 km length, adding
100m each day and see how the performance increases. This will be an
interesting project :-)<br>
Maybe you remember my 700m long earth antenna which allowed me to be
copied in 45 km distance in 4.5 mHz FFT BW, back in 2011 :-) Someone
removed the antenna completely but if you have more space, just give it
a try. I think that 8m above ground should be fine for any tests :-)<br>
Nice to think about it :-)<br>
<br>
73, GL, Stefan<br>
<br>
Am 24.06.2014 12:55, schrieb Markus Vester:
<blockquote
 cite="mid:8D15DB1FF8A27AE-2018-717F@webmail-d249.sysops.aol.com"
 type="cite">
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Joe,
good to read this! </div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"> </div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Regarding
the loading coil, I would agree with Stefan that a large multiturn air
coil is the best option. A laminated iron core would suffer from
excessive eddy current losses, and the effect of ferrites is limited by
saturation and hysteresis losses.</div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"> </div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">My
1.3 henry coil consumed 2.3 km of 0.4 mm enameled wire, using 7 buckets
with 480 turns on each:<br>
df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/VLF_110304-06/coil_legospacers.jpg.<br>
The advantage is that due to magnetic coupling between layers, you will
need less wire for a given inductance. And the inductance is adjustable
across a wide range, using spacers. Disadvantages are the high electric
field between layers limiting voltage capability, and less effective
heat removal from the inner buckets. Stuffing the buckets too tightly
into one another is surely not a good idea:<br>
df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/pictures/arced_coil_140601.jpg</div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"> </div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">An
nonresonant earth antenna across high resistivity rock could also
radiate moderately well, avoiding coil making and high voltage issues
altogether. But to compete with your vertical in terms of radiation
resistance, it would need to be really long, on the order of a couple
of miles. It will have magnetic loop directional pattern which may be a
disadvantage.</div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"> </div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">For a
transatlantic detection eg. by Paul Nicholson, a Rubidium or GPS locked
signal source would be very beneficial. Using SpecLab with 1pps phase
lock to eliminate soundcard output glitches has worked well for DJ8WX,
PA1SDB, and myself.</div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"> </div>
  <div style="font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;">Best
of luck,<br>
Markus (DF6NM)<br>
  <span style="display: inline-block;" contenteditable="false"></span></div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
-----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- <br>
Von: DK7FC <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:73dk7fc@googlemail.com">&lt;73dk7fc@googlemail.com&gt;</a><br>
An: rsgb_lf_group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">&lt;rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&gt;</a><br>
Verschickt: Di, 24 Jun 2014 12:48 am<br>
Betreff: Re: LF: VLF in Canada<br>
  <br>
  <div
 style="margin: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;"
 id="AOLMsgPart_0_4da7018f-81bb-47ad-8310-dc2560da253f"><br>
  <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>Hi Joe, 

 
Fine to hear that you're give it a try. Please, don't ask Industry  

Canada if the 10mW is RF power of ERP! 

 
To get out a real signal on VLF, there is no alternative to a real large  

coil without ferrites! Think about the high voltages... But 100m of  

antenna wire is a good start. I remember 550 mH for my 100m kite  

antenna. For me it was 2000m of 0.4mm diameter wire :-) Nice work is  

that. Takes long but is a funny game :-) 

 
73, GL, Stefan 

 
Am 23.06.2014 21:33, schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="mailto:jcraig@mun.ca">jcraig@mun.ca</a>: 

Dear Group, 

</tt></pre>
  <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>I tried again to get an LOA  for VLF.  This time, the response from  

Industry Canada was favourable: 10 mW 8.0-8.3 kHz.  Yesterday, after a  

few slight rf burns, and  thanks to PA0RDT's miniwhip design and  

DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab and advice, VLF sigs on 8.277 kHz were heard at  

200m from the 100m wire aerial. This was a reception outside my back  

yard!  10 watts from an 1970's keyboard amp (volume control set on 3)  

were stepped up with an xfmr to a lossy 500 ohm tuning coil peaked  

with a ferrite rod for maximum squeal at L=0.35 H. 

</tt></pre>
  <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>Is it possible for someone who is not especially enthralled by winding 

a mile of 0.7mm wire to use an iron core to make a VLF tuning coil? 

</tt></pre>
  <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>73 

Joe VO1NA 


</tt>

  </pre>
  </div>
</blockquote>
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