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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id eo11si5202535wjd.21.2014.03.01.12.16.14 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 12:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WJpOF-0001CX-8f for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 19:16:03 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WJpOE-0001CO-HY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 19:16:02 +0000 Received: from mout2.freenet.de ([195.4.92.92]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WJpOC-000350-6R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 19:16:01 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.141] (helo=mjail1.freenet.de) by mout2.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.80.1 #4) id 1WJpOB-0003b7-2d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:15:59 +0100 Received: from localhost ([::1]:56280 helo=mjail1.freenet.de) by mjail1.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (Exim 4.80.1 #4) id 1WJpOA-0005RO-Rf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:15:58 +0100 Received: from mx11.freenet.de ([195.4.92.21]:42482) by mjail1.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (Exim 4.80.1 #4) id 1WJpMB-000434-3E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:13:55 +0100 Received: from blfd-5d823693.pool.mediaways.net ([93.130.54.147]:2557 helo=[192.168.178.21]) by mx11.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA:256) (port 465) (Exim 4.80.1 #4) id 1WJpMA-00088T-GZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:13:55 +0100 Message-ID: <5312316F.2090903@freenet.de> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:13:51 +0100 From: wolf_dl4yhf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <0BBAB019609B4DF69ED8DC4EE820D0AC@gnat> In-Reply-To: X-Originated-At: 93.130.54.147!2557 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Warren, Already done... I have forwarded some of the info in the VLF group at yahoo. Btw detailed times and frequencies of transmission, posted "here or there" well in advance, would be much appreciated. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [195.4.92.92 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (dl4yhf[at]freenet.de) -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: f6b061074980f2df097866ecbfb83465 Subject: Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010304000107060108040407" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010304000107060108040407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Warren, Already done... I have forwarded some of the info in the VLF group at yahoo. Btw detailed times and frequencies of transmission, posted "here or there" well in advance, would be much appreciated. 73, Wolf DL4YHF . Am 01.03.2014 19:44, schrieb Warren Ziegler: > > Thanks Alan for the info and link. > Might the vlf reflector guys be interested in our experiments? > I think I joined the list but have not been active there, perhaps you > could pass on the info? > 73& Tnx > Warren > > 73 K2ORS > > On Mar 1, 2014 1:15 PM, "Alan Melia" > wrote: > > Hi Warren I think the 70kHz "boundary" is just the point at which > the Earth-Ionosphere waveguide supports so many different modes > that the modelling becomes difficult and the ray path is as > effective. Even this transition is fuzzy and is often quoted as > low as 50kHz. > It may be of interest that Paul Nicholson has put a web front end > to the LWPC propagation code > http://abelian.org/lwpc/ This gives reasonable results up to > around 45kHz. I have done some tests on it and it gives quite > sensible answers. > Alan > G3NYK > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Warren Ziegler > *To:* rsgb_lf_group > *Sent:* Saturday, March 01, 2014 3:54 PM > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA > > Hi Alan, > > I agree, there was nothing that I could find that > indicated that there would be a problem at 30kHz. I even > checked with a well known vlf expert who has done design work > for some of the BIG military vlf systems. Somewhere around > 70kHz there is a transitional area between waveguide modes > applicable at vlf and ray-tracing which is applicable at > higher frequencies. The increased number of modes above 70kHz > I believe explains the deep fading there as the modes > constructively and destructively interfere. > However, it didn't hurt to ask for the additional > frequencies as Dex was able to use an existing loading coil to > get on 45kHz within hours of the license being issued! > > > 73 Warren K2ORS > > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Alan Melia > > > wrote: > > Hi Warren I cant see30kHz being particularly different for > propgation in that part of the spectrum. I can see 2nd > harmonic trashing WWVB clock synchronisation over a > substantial area though, bearing in mind the receivers are > very simple.........and most only try to sync around midnight. > Alan > G3NYK. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Warren Ziegler > *To:* rsgb_lf_group > *Sent:* Saturday, March 01, 2014 3:17 PM > *Subject:* LF: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA > > Hello the list, > > Several questions have come up concerning the > WH2XBA grant and I thought I might address them here. > Bob W2ZM contacted me about applying for a grant at > the top end of the vlf range (just below 30kHz). > The thought was that the high end of vlf would be a > bit less challenging than the low end below 9kHz > (which is unregulated). > > Some of the usual suspects expressed interest so > they were added to the application. Also Jim AA5BW - > Jim and I have a mutual friend through work - Jim is > highly capable and technical and has multiple sites > throughout the country. There was some concern that > the frequencies around 30kHz were unoccupied due to > propagation reasons and some thought it might be good > to go a bit higher, hence the 27-59kHz range, leaving > clearance for WWVB at the top end. > > The license is for 5W ERP, 27-59kHz, CW and every > data mode that I could think of. > > The application was filed on January 29 and the > license issued on February 27 - this was despite some > Federal Holidays and closings due to blizzards! So I > suspect that it didn't raise too many questions. > > The stations are: > WH2XBA/1 Bob W2ZM > WH2XBA/2 Warren K2ORS > WH2XBA/3 Jay W1VD > WH2XBA/4 Dex W4DEX > WH2XBA/5 Laurence KL1L > WH2XBA/6 /7 /8 etc etc James Plesa AA5BW > > WH2XBA Grant Attached. > > 73 Warren K2ORS > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > WG2XRS/1 > WH2XBA/2 > > > > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > --------------010304000107060108040407 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Warren,

Already done... I have forwarded some of the info in the VLF group at yahoo.

Btw detailed times and frequencies of transmission, posted "here or there" well in advance, would be much appreciated.

73,
  Wolf  DL4YHF .


Am 01.03.2014 19:44, schrieb Warren Ziegler:

Thanks Alan for the info and link.
Might the vlf reflector guys be interested in our experiments?
I think I joined the list but have not been active there, perhaps you could pass on the info?
73& Tnx
Warren

73 K2ORS

On Mar 1, 2014 1:15 PM, "Alan Melia" <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:
Hi Warren I think the 70kHz "boundary" is just the point at which the Earth-Ionosphere waveguide supports so many different modes that the modelling becomes difficult and the ray path is as effective.  Even this transition is fuzzy and is often quoted as low as 50kHz.
 
It may be of interest that Paul Nicholson has put a web front end to the LWPC propagation code
http://abelian.org/lwpc/  This gives reasonable results up to around 45kHz. I have done some tests on it and it gives quite sensible answers.
 
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA

Hi Alan,

      I agree, there was nothing that I could find that indicated that there would be a problem at 30kHz. I even checked with a well known vlf expert who has done design work for some of the BIG military vlf systems. Somewhere around 70kHz there is a transitional area between waveguide modes applicable at vlf and ray-tracing which is applicable at higher frequencies. The increased number of modes above 70kHz I believe explains the deep fading there as the modes constructively and destructively interfere.
   However, it didn't hurt to ask for the additional frequencies as Dex was able to use an existing loading coil to get on 45kHz within hours of the license being issued!


73 Warren K2ORS



On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:
Hi Warren I cant see30kHz being particularly different for propgation in that part of the spectrum. I can see 2nd harmonic trashing WWVB clock synchronisation over a substantial area though, bearing in mind the receivers are very simple.........and most only try to sync around midnight.
 
Alan
G3NYK.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 3:17 PM
Subject: LF: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA

Hello the list,

    Several questions have come up concerning the WH2XBA grant and I thought I might address them here.  Bob W2ZM contacted me about applying for a grant at the top end of the vlf range (just below 30kHz).
The thought was that the high end of vlf would be a bit less challenging than the low end below 9kHz (which is unregulated).

    Some of the usual suspects expressed interest so they were added to the application. Also Jim AA5BW - Jim and I have a mutual friend through work - Jim is highly capable and  technical and has multiple sites throughout the country.   There was some concern that the frequencies around 30kHz were unoccupied due to propagation reasons and some thought it might be good to go a bit higher, hence the 27-59kHz range, leaving clearance for WWVB at the top end. 

     The license is for 5W ERP, 27-59kHz, CW and every data mode that I could think of.

    The application was filed on January 29 and the license issued on February 27 - this was despite some Federal Holidays and closings due to blizzards!  So I suspect that it didn't raise too many questions.

     The stations are:
WH2XBA/1     Bob W2ZM
WH2XBA/2   Warren K2ORS
WH2XBA/3     Jay W1VD
WH2XBA/4     Dex  W4DEX
WH2XBA/5   Laurence KL1L 
WH2XBA/6 /7 /8 etc etc James Plesa AA5BW
 

WH2XBA Grant Attached.

73 Warren K2ORS

--
73 Warren K2ORS
                WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/23
                WE2XEB/2
                WE2XGR/1
                WG2XRS/1
                WH2XBA/2

 



--
73 Warren K2ORS
                WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/23
                WE2XEB/2
                WE2XGR/1

 

--------------010304000107060108040407--