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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id ew1si990772wjd.18.2013.12.21.03.07.22 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 03:07:23 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1VuJnx-0004VA-TI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 10:29:09 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1VuJnx-0004V1-AW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 10:29:09 +0000 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1VuJnu-0004G8-1o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 10:29:08 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqYBAKlstVJcGS2a/2dsb2JhbAANS4JHfKBTkQOIPRiBDoMZAQEBAQIBLSgpCwsHAggEAQEBBQEBAQEJDQgHAgcDAgECAQUBDiAJCBMFAQIBAQKHdhWwGZMCh1UXjkMRASMHCyEBhDYEkWWGMoEwlBGBcQ X-IPAS-Result: AqYBAKlstVJcGS2a/2dsb2JhbAANS4JHfKBTkQOIPRiBDoMZAQEBAQIBLSgpCwsHAggEAQEBBQEBAQEJDQgHAgcDAgECAQUBDiAJCBMFAQIBAQKHdhWwGZMCh1UXjkMRASMHCyEBhDYEkWWGMoEwlBGBcQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.95,527,1384300800"; d="scan'208,145,217";a="431116345" Received: from host-92-25-45-154.as13285.net (HELO [127.0.0.1]) ([92.25.45.154]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with ESMTP; 21 Dec 2013 10:29:04 +0000 Message-ID: <52B56D75.5030506@psk31.plus.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 10:29:09 +0000 From: g3zjo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <52B32653.6000506@psk31.plus.com> <015c01cefceb$d6f52ff0$84df8fd0$@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <015c01cefceb$d6f52ff0$84df8fd0$@comcast.net> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 131220-3, 20/12/2013), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: HI Jim FWD from G3MFW > Thanks for your interest, you obviously know much more about it than I > do! I would be interested to study your results. I will look out for > broadening of my signal when I try narrow bandwidths, but nothing is > apparent at 1.46Hz. I am sure I am not losing any current to undesired > paths. I have wired the system with mains wire (3 conductors in > parallel), 2 inches above the ground. I measured the resistance at > 8.97kHz from the house pipes to each earth individually. They ranged > from 159 to 490 ohms, the calculated parallel resistance being 22.4 > ohms. However, when connected together they measured 33 ohms. I am not > expecting a miracle with my test, but with VLF you never know! > Harry, G3MFW [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: b6696563999afa34e36d15007cae73e3 Subject: Re: LF: RE: 8.9758KHz Earth Mode Test 21st Dec. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060605010208030401090203" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_BALANCE_TABLE,WEIRD_QUOTING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2643 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060605010208030401090203 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Jim FWD from G3MFW > Thanks for your interest, you obviously know much more about it than I > do! I would be interested to study your results. I will look out for > broadening of my signal when I try narrow bandwidths, but nothing is > apparent at 1.46Hz. I am sure I am not losing any current to undesired > paths. I have wired the system with mains wire (3 conductors in > parallel), 2 inches above the ground. I measured the resistance at > 8.97kHz from the house pipes to each earth individually. They ranged > from 159 to 490 ohms, the calculated parallel resistance being 22.4 > ohms. However, when connected together they measured 33 ohms. I am not > expecting a miracle with my test, but with VLF you never know! > Harry, G3MFW Eddie On 19/12/2013 18:54, hvanesce wrote: > > I am out of range (Arizona this weekend) for your experiment, but > interested. I have carefully measured infrastructure effects > (including buried utilities and other utilities), and have > coincidentally seen roughly 6km range (at VLF frequencies) in a > scenario that is somewhat similar. For what it's worth I found steep > field gradients near 3km-6km (infrastructure and topology dependent) > in four directions, and did not have time or RX dynamic range to > determine whether these gradients were associated with multi-modal > interference nulls, utility decouplers, or simply extinction of the > reactive field. I hope to extend my RX dynamic range by ~ 20dB in the > near future, and will repeat these measurements (at ranges > 6km) at > that time. > > Does your infrastructure broaden your signal and/or add spurs? I > suppose you can't know this until your test is underway, but it might > be helpful for others to eventually know this, on the chance that some > infrastructure resonating off center frequency has a large aperture > and could therefore be detected more easily than the fundamental at > ranges > 6km*. > > At 50V, 1.5A (~ 33 ohms) do you think that you are losing any > current to undesired paths? > > Best of luck on your tests. > > 73, Jim AA5BW > > * (given your antenna contact separation, it seemed that > infrastructure aperture might be significant compared to coupling > between your earth loop and the infrastructure, for RX separations > > 6km, at which distance the reactive field may be giving way to > aperture-dependent quasi-static and radiative field components) > > *From:*owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *g3zjo > *Sent:* Thursday, December 19, 2013 10:01 AM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* LF: 8.9758KHz Earth Mode Test 21st Dec. > > G3MFW has problems posting to the Groups at the moment, I have > received the following from him. > > > I have been experimenting with earth systems for some years. I now use > the house water pipes and an array of 11 copper earth rods and buried > sheet in parallel, 30 metres away at the bottom of the garden. At > 8.9758 (crystal) I pass 1.5 amps at 50 volts RMS. I have made a > reception map around Truro, Cornwall, at 1.46Hz bandwidth using a 41 > turn horizontal loop on the car roof rack, supplemented by using the > same loop on the ground. Ranges vary greatly with topography and earth > conditions, but are up to 6 Km with buried utilities assistance. > > I will transmit this Saturday, 21^st Dec, from 9.00 to 10.15 am using > QRSS 3 with endless dashes. I would be most grateful if you would > report any reception using narrow bandwidths. I must be exciting > several square kilometres of buried utilities -- surely SOMETHING must > be radiated! I can repeat the test at any time upon request. > > Harry Woodhouse, G3MFW > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Image removed by sender. > > > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com --------------060605010208030401090203 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------070704000904020905040006" --------------070704000904020905040006 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Jim

FWD from G3MFW

Thanks for your interest, you obviously know much more about it than I do! I would be interested to study your results. I will look out for broadening of my signal when I try narrow bandwidths, but nothing is apparent at 1.46Hz. I am sure I am not losing any current to undesired paths. I have wired the system with mains wire (3 conductors in parallel), 2 inches above the ground. I measured the resistance at 8.97kHz from the house pipes to each earth individually. They ranged from 159 to 490 ohms, the calculated parallel resistance being 22.4 ohms. However, when connected together they measured 33 ohms. I am not expecting a miracle with my test, but with VLF you never know!
Harry, G3MFW


Eddie

On 19/12/2013 18:54, hvanesce wrote:

I am out of range (Arizona this weekend) for your experiment, but interested. I have carefully measured infrastructure effects (including buried utilities and other utilities), and have coincidentally seen roughly 6km range (at VLF frequencies) in a scenario that is somewhat similar. For what it’s worth I found steep field gradients near 3km-6km (infrastructure and topology dependent) in four directions, and did not have time or RX dynamic range to determine whether these gradients were associated with multi-modal interference nulls, utility decouplers, or simply extinction of the reactive field. I hope to extend my RX dynamic range by ~ 20dB in the near future, and will repeat these measurements (at ranges > 6km) at that time.

 

Does your infrastructure broaden your signal and/or add spurs? I suppose you can’t know this until your test is underway, but it might be helpful for others to eventually know this, on the chance that some infrastructure resonating off center frequency has a large aperture and could therefore be detected more easily than the fundamental at ranges > 6km*.

 

At 50V, 1.5A  (~ 33 ohms) do you think that you are losing any current  to undesired paths?

 

Best of luck on your tests.

 

73, Jim AA5BW

 

*  (given your antenna contact separation, it seemed that infrastructure aperture might be significant compared to coupling between your earth loop and the infrastructure, for RX separations > 6km, at which distance the reactive field may be giving way to aperture-dependent quasi-static and radiative field components)

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of g3zjo
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 10:01 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: 8.9758KHz Earth Mode Test 21st Dec.

 

G3MFW has problems posting to the Groups at the moment, I have received the following from him.


I have been experimenting with earth systems for some years. I now use the house water pipes and an array of 11 copper earth rods and buried sheet in parallel, 30 metres away at the bottom of the garden. At 8.9758 (crystal) I pass 1.5 amps at 50 volts RMS. I have made a reception map around Truro, Cornwall, at 1.46Hz bandwidth using a 41 turn horizontal loop on the car roof rack, supplemented by using the same loop on the ground. Ranges vary greatly with topography and earth conditions, but are up to 6 Km with buried utilities assistance.

I will transmit this Saturday, 21st Dec, from 9.00 to 10.15 am using QRSS 3 with endless dashes. I would be most grateful if you would report any reception using narrow bandwidths. I must be exciting several square kilometres of buried utilities – surely SOMETHING must be radiated! I can repeat the test at any time upon request.

 

Harry Woodhouse, G3MFW



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This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

 



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