Return-Path: Received: from rly-me04.mx.aol.com (rly-me04.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.38]) by air-me08.mail.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILINME082-9b44a0db25942; Fri, 15 May 2009 14:20:26 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-me04.mx.aol.com (v123.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINME048-9b44a0db25942; Fri, 15 May 2009 14:20:11 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1M520H-0008Bn-Kd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 May 2009 19:19:29 +0100 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1M520H-0008Be-6G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 May 2009 19:19:29 +0100 Received: from smtp808.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.68]) by relay3.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1M520F-00045a-82 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 May 2009 19:19:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 27746 invoked from network); 15 May 2009 18:18:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=f8ecWNCQg5EgkE1wvSS1oLEOeWg1n5aeLKTBEwxHPiDvVtf8AnaejLwvo25bwv04QaoCPKR4+pp+sQhYMnQDe8sppA49l7AuvMgdQD38vUfNouYBZX0g0IpfREbVGxE6G4UsRfTph/Lc6p299FU26WZewAlhunu+rbi1x5zxnLw= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.177.107.129 with login) by smtp808.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2009 18:18:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 8HufV1AVM1nfCoI8Wt34MEBgzoWxQWmAJ6eGtBNhHUebqhomyl15iOQY42CLAdP.2bJ5Gu_rUrjAkNzJw0dhdhR_hT64BdzHH2dC58cA_BZIfFhVUbu2ZP473PAoxWl6C.4JPMhieDTsheqGNdU6PJyg0gosbvAX.2sF83DCy9SrhmlfNyIjWc4NudR5pkMNiZXfLa2bOkqhOdBMRchRti3eQfoiXyxrYvzJpTeLxiwoxwjBpWIklUE9sPIwmWvry334XnCcbaLmhnlf X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <52125C6E9B21456EBEB404A18962150C@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <4A0D91E3.9040602@btconnect.com> <20090515183514.mt168ada0ug4k4c4@webmail4.kuleuven.be> <4A0D9BAC.6060808@btconnect.com> In-Reply-To: <4A0D9BAC.6060808@btconnect.com> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:18:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Aerial current Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Richard, LF Group, It is not generally the case that the output impedance of a PA is equal to its design load impedance, and so maximum power delivered to load is not the same thing as load impedance being 50 ohms or whatever. This is especially the case with switching type amplifiers, which will usually deliver more power to a load below the design value. With a switching type amplifier, assuming nothing in the PA is getting hot, most of the DC input power is being delivered to the load as RF (80%+ efficiency is normal). So checking DC supply voltage/current is similar to what it is when the PA is driving a dummy load will give a fairly good indication if the actual antenna load impedance is similar to the dummy load, or whether the output power is more or less than what is being delivered to the dummy load. Thermocouple-type RF ammeters are prone to be a bit erratic in their old age - a check on calibration is to measure the current into a dummy load, and compare with the current in the load calculated from the RF voltage measured with an oscilloscope or diode voltmeter, etc. Alternatively, DC or (preferably) 50Hz AC current can be used to check calibration. The definitive place to measure RF current is at the feed point of the antenna itself - this then allows a reasonable calculation of ERP to be made, in conjunction with calculating the radiation resistance from the antenna dimensions. As has been pointed out, there is generally some impedance transformation occuring between the TX feeder and the antenna feed point, so the currents will be different. The only real way to be sure whether the load impedance is what you expect is to have some sort of instrumentation to measure it. A suitable LF SWR bridge will tell you if the impedance deviates from the design value of the bridge. I use either a simple "scope-match" circuit in conjunction with an oscilloscope to indicate voltage/current/phase at the TX output, or my LF tuning meter design (see G3YXM's "features" page) to do something equivalent. Another possibility is to measure the impedance with an RF bridge. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU