Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:50:11 +0100
From: Steinar Aanesland <saanes@broadpark.no>
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Subject: LF: Re: [rsgb_lf_group] Re: Working out the "loop in the ground" area with
 earth electrodes
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Hi Roger

It has been very interesting to follow this experiment :) Keep up the
good work!

Best regards from Norway.

LA5VNA Steinar
loc:JO59jq
Mal and spam filtering: STRONG
Jos=E9 Ros software not supported



Den 10.01.2013 00:04, skrev G3XBM:
>=20
> As a final (?) remark, my signal is STILL being copied far and wide=
 this evening (701km) despite NOTHING at all in the air, just a bit o=
f wire across the lawn to an earth rod and another to a pipe in the s=
hack.=20
>=20
> At this point I AM stopping!
>=20
> 73s
> Roger G3XBM=20
>=20
> --- In rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk, Rik Strobbe  wrote:
>>
>> Roger,
>>
>>
>>
>> based on A1 =3D ((1+sqrt(P2/P1))/((P2/P1)-1))*A2.
>>
>> where A2 (area above ground) =3D 15m^2
>>
>> For 3dB difference P2/P1 =3D 2: A1 =3D ((1+sqrt(2))/(2-1))*15 =
=3D 36m^2.
>>
>> For 1dB difference P2/P1 =3D 1.26: A1 =3D ((1+sqrt(1.16))/(1.16-1)=
)*15 =3D 195m^2.
>>
>> Taking into account all uncertainties the last value (195m^2) is q=
uite close to the 290m^2 calculated earlier (abt 50% or 1.8dB error).
>>
>> Some more "datapoints" might clear things up, but I understand tha=
t you are going to stop the experiment for now.
>>
>> Thanks for providing all the experimental data.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Van: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk [rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co=
.uk] namens G3XBM [rogerlapthorn@...]
>> Verzonden: woensdag 9 januari 2013 20:51
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk
>> Onderwerp: [rsgb_lf_group] Working out the "loop in the ground" ar=
ea with earth electrodes
>>
>>
>>
>> Rik,
>>
>> Maths is not my strong subject but I have tried to plug in values =
in you equation and am getting odd results, but I may have made mista=
kes.
>>
>> The difference on a local (G4HJW) 9km away between an earth electr=
ode antenna with around 15 sq m in the air (the original configuratio=
n) and with zero loop in the air (today's configuration with the wire=
 on the grass) is around 3dB averaged over a number of spots. When I =
plug these numbers in (should I use 2x for power or 3 (dB) ?)
>>
>> With G3ZJO who is 79km there is very little difference, perhaps 1d=
B between the loop on the ground and with 15m sq of the structure in =
the air.
>>
>> If you have a minute, would you plug the figures in and see what y=
ou get please?
>>
>> [Loop part that is in the air was 1.5m (high) x 10m long with the =
rest on the ground. This was for the original configuration.
>>
>> With the "wire on the grass" version today, there is zero wire in =
the air, so air loop area is zero.]
>>
>> 73s
>> Roger G3XBM
>>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20