Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13305 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2003 14:46:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Apr 2003 14:46:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 11456 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2003 14:41:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2003 14:41:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1994MD-0005JP-TK for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:39:21 +0100 Received: from [134.58.240.42] (helo=rusty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1994Lx-0005J0-36 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:39:05 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rusty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E9E1D7410 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:38:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from octavianus.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be (octavianus.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.240.71]) by rusty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4D091D741A for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:38:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by octavianus.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9521AAEA69 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:38:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030425162821.04396d98@u0019445.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: u0019445@u0019445.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:38:57 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D01A9F1AC@mail.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by KULeuven Antivirus Cluster Subject: Re: LF: A conumdrum for the weekend - Image Can celling Mixer. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-9.8 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TOversion=2.53 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Just at make my contribution to the confusion : assume in the 2nd setup that we swap signal and LO. It shouldn't make no difference as it is just a matter of interpretation what you call signal and LO. Thus , >Keeping the same terminology of Signal = SIN(A), and LO = SIN(B) becomes Signal = SIN(B) and LO = SIN(A) At the upper leg : SIN(A) * COS(B) = SIN(A+B) + SIN(A-B) (ignoring the divide by 2) after the 90 degrees phase shift at the output = COS(A+B) + COS(A-B) At the lower leg : SIN(A)*SIN(B) = COS(A-B) - COS(A+B) Adding : COS(A+B) + COS(A-B) + COS(A-B) - COS(A+B) = 2*COS(A-B) Subtracting : COS(A+B) + COS(A-B) - COS(A-B) + COS(A+B) = 2*COS(A+B) So that way theory seems OK. 73, Rik ON7YD At 11:52 25/04/2003 +0100, you wrote: >The following little theoretical problem has occured several times during my >working life, and has cropped up once again, when another engineer here >asked me to explain how a radar receiver front end, as shown in the block >diagram in a manufacturers data sheet, could possibly work. > >A well-known supplier of packaged mixers once had the same conumdrum to >solve when producing a customised mixer for us. Concern about it resulted in >them developing a special 90 degree network for operating over 0.3 to 5 MHz, >when all that was really needed was a couple of simple designs that operated >at HF/VHF. If common sense had ruled, the mixer would have been produced >much quicker and at less cost. > >Andy G4JNT > >========================================================= >Image Cancelling Mixer connundrum. > >In the classic image cancelling mixer, suppression of one mixer sideband is >obtained by combining two 90 degree shifted input signals with two 90 degree >shifted versions of a local oscillator. The outputs from the two channels >are then added or subtracted depending on which sideband is desired. > > > > ---90---X---------| >Signal -| | +/- IF > ------------X-----| > | | > 90 | > | - | > | > Local Osc. > >If the signal is represented by SIN(A) and the Local Oscillator by SIN(B) >then the signal input to the top mixer is now COS(A) as it has passed >through a 90 degree phase shift, and its respective LO is COS(B) > >The mixers multiply the two signals, and from standard trignometric >identities taken from any mathematical reference, the products of two sines >can be expressed as a sum and difference equation >So the outputs of the mixers (ignoring the factors of 2 in the trig >identities) are : > >Top COS(A).COS(B) = COS(A-B) + COS(A+B) >Bottom SIN(A).SIN(B) = COS(A-B) - COS(A+B) > >So the cancellation / reinforcement at the output is obvious. > >NOW, if we move the second 90 degree phase shift to the output of the >mixers (the IF) rather than the LO, as shown below, intuition and common >sense tells us it should still work since the mixing process is fully >reversible and actual direction of signal flow is irrelevant. Furthermore, >many real designs of SSB exciters and receivers prove this really does work >in practice. > > ---90---X----90----| >Signal -| | +/- IF > ------------X------| > | | > | - | > | > Local Osc. > >But here is the conumdrum : > >Keeping the same terminology of Signal = SIN(A), and LO = SIN(B), the inputs >to the top mixer become >COS(A) . SIN(B) >and the output given by the product rule : >COS(A).SIN(B) = SIN(A+B) - SIN(A-B) > >After the output 90 degree phase shift, the SIN terms beocome COS so we >have, in the top output leg : >COS(A+B) - COS(A-B) > >The output from the bottom mixer is, as before : >SIN(A).SIN(B) = COS(A-B) - COS(A+B) > >Which is the SAME as in the top leg, and will either cancel or reinforce >both sidebands. >So it doesn't appear to work at all ! >Moving the output 90 degree shift to the lower leg still fails to cancel one >sideband only. > >So where is the conundrum? Both forms of image cancelling mixer do indeed >work, and the trig identities can be taken from any reference. >================================================== >PS. >I do have one rather weak explanation, but it doesn't give that warm cozy >feeling expected when theory falls into place! >Andy > > >"This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the >intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, >or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has >misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." > >"Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is >subject to monitoring and auditing."