Return-Path: Received: (qmail 920 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2003 19:27:22 -0000 Received: from netmail02.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.221) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Jan 2003 19:27:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 468 invoked by uid 10001); 21 Jan 2003 19:27:06 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail02.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2003 19:27:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.12) id 18b41q-0005BK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:25:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18b41q-0005BB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:25:46 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18b41e-00008Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:25:34 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18b41T-0006R8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:25:23 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030121134526.00b1fe68@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:25:21 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EFB05A43@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp .telenor.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Notch for DCF39/Spectrograms/Luxembourg effect Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=6.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.43 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Dear Jan-Martin, LF group, At 14:10 21/01/2003 +0100, you wrote: >A source follower has incredible low gain - even when driving high impedance, >that's the reason I discard such constructions, but using a PNP instead of >NPN >you may achieve over unity gain. A BJT emitter follower has in the region of >0.8-0.95x voltage gain. >You set the feedback to adjust the gain, and add some postive feedback to >the input and achieve very high input impedance. A source follower has unity gain only with infinite load impedance. But most source followers have a built-in load in the form of the source bias resistor, which will normally be a few hundred ohms. A FET with transconductance of a few mS has a source follower output impedance of a few hundred ohms, so the bias resistor substantially loads the output, resulting in gain well below unity. This can be avoided by increasing the load impedance in different ways, eg. by connecting a high impedance choke in series with the source resistor. In the compound follower circuit, the low potential end of the 100R resistor is bootstrapped by the output of the emitter follower, making its effective impedance much higher. The bipolar follower has much higher transconductance, giving an output impedance of a couple of ohms, and so can achieve nearly unity gain even with a 50 ohm load. The actual gain of the complete circuit was about 0.9 - 0.95, depending on the transistors used. With a high impedance source, the thermal noise will be high also - eg. for 10k Rs, about 0.2uV in 300Hz. Most reasonable receivers have lower noise floor than this, so increasing gain is not very useful. If you do need higher gain, a circuit like LA8AK suggests is a good way to go. The circuit I experimented with is not the best high impedance buffer money can buy, but it is simple, requires no adjustment, and delivers nearly unity gain with adequately low noise and low distortion for many purposes. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU