Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17041 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2002 16:01:48 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Jul 2002 16:01:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10137 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2002 16:01:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2002 16:01:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17T2kN-0000ID-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:54:19 +0100 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17T2kM-0000Hq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:54:18 +0100 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be ([10.33.165.177]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g6CFrkJA172232 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:53:46 +0200 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020712173901.00bc7df8@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:57:06 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Ground loss/gain (was: polarization of small loops) In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Claudio and LF group, I think that the "ground gain" and the "ground losses" depends on two different >phenomena. Ground gain should come from reflections from ground at a >distant point >(far field) from the source combining with the direct ray from the same >source with >the proper phase. The type of antenna used shouldn't matter since it will >be seen >as a point source at a large distance; of course the polarization w.r.t. >ground >will be important. The term "ground gain" was not a good choice for what I meant. I agree that ground reflection at a distant point can give up to 6dB additional gain ("ground gain" ?) and if this reflection occurs in the far field it will not affect the antenna (impedance etc...). But what I was reffering to is the effect caused by the ground creating a "mirror image" of the antenna. If the antenna is close to ground (as any antenna is at 136kHz) this "mirroring" is in the near field (where any losses, reflections etc.. will affect the antenna) and can double the radiation resistance. But at the same time any lossy object in the near field will increase the antenna losses. >The ground losses depend on the presence of dissipative materials near the >antenna >(near field); for a small electric dipole the electric field near the antenna >should be more intense than for a small magnetic loop. On the other hand, the >magnetic field near a loop antenna should be higher than for an dipole. At a >distance (far field) there is no difference between the two (for the same >radiated >power, of course). So probably for a monopole it is important to have a >dielectric >with low losses (and ground usually is not), while for a loop a lossy >dielectric >near the antenna has less effect, due to the weaker electric field. But I >have no >idea how lossy is the ground as a magnetic material... I agree that the groundloss for an "electrical" antenna depend on the diëlectric properties of the ground while for a "magnetical" antenna it will depend on the permeability properties. So these losses can be different for a short vertical monopole (electrical) and a small loop (magnetical). But at the same time the "mirroring" of the ground can be different for these 2 types of antennas (so ground could be a good mirror for a monopole and a poor mirror for a loop - or vice versa). My intuition would say that groundloss and ground "mirroring" go together, so a loop might suffer less from groundloss but at the same time it will not benefit from the "mirroring" (based on the principle that "there is no such thing as a free meal") 73, Rik ON7YD