Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1302 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 12:38:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 12:38:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17043 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 12:38:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 12:38:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pVC9-0003ry-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:11:33 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pVC8-0003rt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:11:32 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16pTfE-0003CL-00; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:33:28 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16pTfD-0001dt-00; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:33:27 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325112727.00a94ed8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:29:03 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Alexander S. Yurkov" From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Ground loss In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:19 23/03/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hello, lowfers! > >I wonder is any methods to estimate theoretically groung loss resistance >of transmitting LF antenna (T-antenna with wire conterpoints mainly but >others antennas also). >I have good expirience in theoretical physics but I do not know, how solve >the problem correctly...:-( My attempt to use EZNEC-2 was unsucsesfull. Dear Alexander, LF Group, I am not aware of any reliable way of calculating ground loss resistance - The problem with using EZNEC or similar is that it does not provide a realistic way of modelling a buried ground system. Some old antenna books provide some info about ground losses, but this data is concerned with big, professional LF antennas, and does not seem to be representative of the performance of much smaller amateur antennas. From a theoretical point of view, a small LF antenna could probably be modelled as a lossy capacitor - but this requires a knowledge of the dielectric properties of the soil under the antenna, and the field distribution around the antenna, which are usually not known with any accuracy. Practical figures for ground loss of amateur top-loaded vertical antennas at 136kHz vary from around 10-20 ohms to a few hundred ohms at the extremes - typically, tens of ohms can be expected - the larger or higher the antenna, the lower resistance gets. The loss resistance of a particular antenna is frequency dependent, very approximately proportional to 1/f. Environmental effects are significant - if there are many trees or buildings near the antenna, loss will increase. However, even in an "ideal" location in an open field, the loss resistance is not greatly reduced. On the whole, people have been disappointed with the effects of improving ground systems using radials, counterpoises, and earth rods - the actual resistance of the ground connection seems to be only a minor factor in the overall losses. Will be interested to hear about any of your investigations on this subject. Also, I'm sure many of us would be keen to try and receive your 136kHz sigs - using QRSS or similar modes, you can go a long way with low power and quite small antennas. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU