Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4611 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 13:10:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Dec 2001 13:10:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15794 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2001 13:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Dec 2001 13:10:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Bbbm-0003Nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:57:06 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Bbbk-0003Nl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:57:04 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16Bbay-0007nU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:56:16 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Bbax-0001RM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:56:15 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011205110343.00a863e0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:56:14 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Re. Improving extreame weak signals. In-reply-to: <000b01c17d71$5ce0d720$7273883e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, At 09:41 05/12/2001 +0000, Laurie wrote: >...but it would seem sensible to have defined time and >frequency "slots" into which the signal could drop,so that all the available >energy could be used rather than it be spread out in timeand frequency. I think we have been here before ... If you chose the optimum resolution for the speed of QRSS you are using, you will get the best signal to noise ratio between "dot" and "no dot" when all the samples containing a signal are used for the FFT algorithm that calculates the spectrum of the signal. This suggests you would get the brightest dot on the screen if the start of the FFT is made to coincide with the start of the dot. But in fact this more or less happens already; suppose you have 30 s dots and have set up the FFT to use 30s worth of samples. Normally, the spectrogram software will perform an FFT at least once every few seconds, let's say 3 seconds, using the received signal from the previous 30s. Even if the relative timing of the dots and FFT is totally un-synchronised, at least one FFT will start within 3 seconds of the start of the dot being transmitted, and so be very close to optimum. The FFTs performed on data from before and after the optimum time will contain less signal, so the dot displayed on the screen will fade in and out, reaching a peak of intensity in the middle. The only effect of synchronising the start of the FFT with the dots will be to eliminate the sub-optimum FFTs, and retain the optimum one where the timings coincided - the effect would be the same as superimposing an opaque mask on the screen with slots coinciding with the timing of the transmitted dots. I suppose this would not be hard to do, but would it be an advantage? You would get rid of some "clutter" on the display, but it would be harder to tell when bursts of noise and so on had occured. The display would not actually contain any more signal information, though. I think Rik's idea of displaying 2 tones differentially ought to work, but it would place quite stringent demands on frequency stability. The current spectrograms are not too fussy about exact frequency, so long as the drift is smaller than the FFT resolution during one dot period, and the signal stays on the screen. But if we were to compare two tones, it would require accuracy in the frequency shift that was smaller than the resolution of the FFT - a few millihertz with the longer dot lengths. Judging from last year's experience with Wolf, it is quite hard for this kind of accuracy to be set up and maintained throughout the transmit/receive system, when the equipment being used includes amateur-type rigs, sound cards etc. BTW: I hope to get my DFCW modulator finished as soon as I get a bit of time to do it - should be a real advantage for someone whose callsign is mainly dashes! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU