Return-Path: Received: from rly-df10.mx.aol.com (rly-df10.mail.aol.com [172.19.156.23]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILINDF073-5844895fca7291; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:45:21 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-df10.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDF107-5844895fca7291; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:44:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1KPiYl-0000Xn-8D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:44:03 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1KPiYk-0000Xe-Gc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:44:02 +0100 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.152]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KPiYg-00085a-Vv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Aug 2008 19:44:02 +0100 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3426.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 6890E1C00089 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:43:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.110.79.74]) by mwinf3426.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 361C81C00084 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:43:45 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20080803184345221.361C81C00084@mwinf3426.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <4FEA55415CE3426391A1472DCA8FB59D@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <004a01c8f19b$3d370520$a402a8c0@Inspiron> <011925433193420FAA184FA6E7F8CDA9@DennisPC> <120FCD1BCEFD4733A70BB7E4DE695E1F@AGB> <847A2BA37D8C4C88BE7899AFE777998A@DennisPC> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 19:43:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 X-Karma: 0: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C8F5A1.3C833270" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C8F5A1.3C833270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dennis, I'm in a state of flux at this end , having a big move round ,,which has no= t gone to plan still operational on hf , but all the mf kit is in boxes at= the moment , I can take a look , on 500 , with low power you will be better= sending very slow cw and checking on the grabbers , you should show at Bir= mingham and later in the night at Shetland ... Shetland is a very strange pl= ace as there doesn't look to be any background noise . ... apart from the w= ind that occasionally removes the antenna ! Gary is also running a on line=20= 'grabber' he's about 60 miles north of Birmingham . you may shown there...=20 Oddly , a good earth looks to do more for the signal than the Ae , any pipe= s rods ect in the ground , use individual wires and bring them all back to= the same earth point , its not conductance that makes the difference is gro= und capacity , the more the better , wires under the top of the ae will add=20= to the return path for the current... =20 The top loading coil, 40 turns of 30 amp wire on a coke bottle , (others=20= may of used a cider flagon .... they know who they are) ... and i think Gary= favours a centre one, made a big improvement. Anything that increases the c= urrent in the vertical section of the system , don't bother with long low w= ires , these just radiate vertically upwards.. the annoying thing is the station now works much better on top band and 80=20= mtrs as a result of the mod's embodied for 500... could of done them 15 year= s ago=20 Q how are you generating fsk ? =20 Good luck=20 Graham From: DENNIS EASTERLING=20 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:00 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Graham Thanks for your e-mail and encouraging remarks. I have made a couple of te= st transmissions, but no comments so far. I am having to suspend ops for t= he present as my neighbour is having a nearby tree felled and I have lowered= my antenna just in case. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 1:27 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Dennis, Don't worry about operation on vlf, I think you find the band acts more l= ike top band , with a well defined service area ~60/ 70 miles and a first sk= ip round 200/250 , I can see a trace at Birmingham with 500mW to my antenna=20= , only real problem is the dreaded deep fade 'qsb' whic takes the signal out= 30 seconds up to 1 minuet + , which causes havoc with rtty , as you have n= o idea if the other station copied anything .... dont suppose you have amtor= ? =20 I doubt you will cause any interference with those power levels , I ran 2= 0 watts to a inverted L 40 ft x 40 ft for a long time , which radiated quit= e well , but after adding a top loading coil found it worked a lot better ,=20= with 150 watts and a new variometer tuner , still didn't record any problems= .. Had more problems with the pc jamming the incoming signals and a funny lon= g life bulb that radiated a well spaced spectrum across the band ! check ou= t the pages on the google uk500khz web news group for links to the grabbers= etc .=20 73 's=20 Graham ..=20 G0NBD=20 From: DENNIS EASTERLING=20 Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:52 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Hi Lee I have just got my NOV to operate on 500kHz, so will be dipping my toe int= o the water from next week. I have not got any 138kHz experience and only obtained my full amateur lic= ence last May. On my application for the NOV, I provided a scale diagram of my own and im= mediate neighbour's properties, gave a brief description of the TX(home brew= ), RX(Lowe HF-225) and antenna(T) that I intend to use and an estimate of my= erp from the TANTENNA program on the internet (200mW). As I am using a VFO= , I use a counter to measure the frequency and also monitor transmissions us= ing the RX which has a digital readout. I also stated that I would cease t= ransmissions until any complaint was satisfactorily resolverd, and mentioned= two nearby amateurs also working on 500kHz whose help and advice I could se= ek. All the above seemed to work, so good luck on your application. The more=20= the merrier. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lee Hudson=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: LF: 500KHz NoV Hi All, After reading through loads of stuff and monitoring the LF Group I'm lef= t with the decision of whether to start on 136 or 500KHz. 500KHz seems much easier to deal with from the outset, and hopefully the= NoV period will be extended further next year. However the NoV itself is the possible stumbling block in that it appear= s that experience on 136KHz is a big plus that Ofcom appear to be looking fo= r, My question is, would I get away with applying for a NoV without first b= eing active on 136KHz, or has anyone already taken this route and been succe= ssful? 73, Lee M0LMH. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 06= :56 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 17= :30 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C8F5A1.3C833270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dennis,
 
I'm in  a state of flux at this end ,=20= having a=20 big move round ,,which has not gone to  plan  still operational on= hf=20 , but all the mf kit is in boxes at the moment , I can take a look , on 500=20= ,=20 with low power you will be better sending very  slow cw and checking on= the=20 grabbers , you should show at Birmingham and later in the night at Shet= land=20 ... Shetland is a very strange place as there doesn't look to  be any=20 background noise . ... apart from the wind that occasionally removes th= e=20 antenna ! Gary is also  running a on line 'grabber' he's about 60 miles= =20 north of Birmingham . you may shown there...
 
Oddly , a good earth looks to  do more= for the=20 signal than the Ae , any pipes rods  ect in the ground , use individual= =20 wires and bring them all back  to the same earth point , its not=20 conductance that makes the difference is ground capacity , the more the bett= er ,=20 wires under the top of the ae will add  to  the return path for th= e=20 current...  
 
 The top loading coil, 40  turns=20= of 30=20 amp wire  on a coke bottle , (others may of used a cider flagon ..= ..=20 they know who they are) ... and i think Gary favours a centre one, made= a=20 big improvement. Anything that increases=20= the=20 current in the vertical section of the system , don't  bother with long= low=20 wires , these just radiate vertically upwards..
the annoying thing is  the statio= n now=20 works much better on top band and 80 mtrs as a result of the mod's embodied=20= for=20 500... could of done them 15 years ago
 
Q how are you generating fsk ?  
 
Good luck
 
Graham
 
 
 
 

Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Graham
 
Thanks for your e-mail and encouraging=20 remarks.   I have made a couple of test transmissions, but no comm= ents=20 so far.   I am having to suspend ops for the present as my neighbo= ur=20 is having a nearby tree felled and I have lowered my antenna just in=20 case.
 
73 Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
Graham
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 1:27=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Dennis,
 
Don't worry about  operation on vlf,= I think=20 you find the band acts more like top band , with a well defined service ar= ea=20 ~60/ 70 miles and a first skip round 200/250 , I can see a trace at Birmin= gham=20 with 500mW to my antenna , only real problem is the dreaded deep fade 'qsb= '=20 whic takes the signal out 30 seconds up to  1 minuet + , which causes= =20 havoc with rtty , as you have no idea if the other station copied anything= =20 .... dont suppose you have amtor ?  
 
I doubt you will cause any interference=20 with  those power levels , I ran 20 watts to a inverted L =20= 40=20 ft x 40 ft for a long time , which radiated quite well , but after adding=20= a=20 top loading coil found it worked a lot better , with 150 watts and a new=20 variometer tuner , still didn't record any problems ..
 
Had more problems with the pc jamming the= =20 incoming signals and a funny long life bulb that radiated a well spaced=20 spectrum across the band  ! check out the pages on the google =20 uk500khz web news group for links to the grabbers etc .
 
73 's
 
Graham ..
 
G0NBD
 
 
 

Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Hi Lee
 
I have just got my NOV to operate on 500k= Hz, so=20 will be dipping my toe into the water from next week.
 
I have not got any 138kHz experience and=20= only=20 obtained my full amateur licence last May.
On my application for the NOV, I provided= a=20 scale diagram of my own and immediate neighbour's properties, gave a=20 brief description of the TX(home brew), RX(Lowe HF-225) and antenna(T)=20 that I intend to use and an estimate of my erp from the TANTENNA prog= ram=20 on the internet (200mW).  As I am using a VFO, I use a counter to mea= sure=20 the frequency and also monitor transmissions using the RX which has a digi= tal=20 readout.   I also stated that I would cease transmissions until=20= any=20 complaint was satisfactorily resolverd, and mentioned two nearby amateurs=20= also=20 working on 500kHz whose help and advice I could seek.
 
All the above seemed to work, so good luc= k on=20 your application.  The more the merrier.
 
73 Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lee Hudson
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:50= =20 PM
Subject: LF: 500KHz NoV

Hi All,

 

After reading through loads=20= of=20 stuff and monitoring the LF Group I=92m left with the decision of whethe= r to=20 start on 136 or 500KHz.

 

500KHz seems much easier to=20= deal=20 with from the outset, and hopefully the NoV period will be extended furt= her=20 next year.

However the NoV itself is th= e=20 possible stumbling block in that it appears that experience on 136KHz is= a=20 big plus that Ofcom appear to be looking for,

 

My question is, would I get=20= away=20 with applying for a NoV without first being active on 136KHz, or has any= one=20 already taken this route and been successful?

 

73,

Lee M0LMH.

 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 06=
:56

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 17=
:30
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