Message-ID: <4DB873DB.500@talktalk.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:51:55 +0100
From: qrss <qrss@talktalk.net>
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References: <BANLkTi=zR_pWD2Sn9b=OsW-gNDTjXLNjXQ@mail.gmail.com>	<4DB8535B.7040903@talktalk.net> <BANLkTi=XSUVY5Rm2TvQpQte7vVVbmdZLdQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: LF: More 8.97kHz WSPR decodes - changed PC here
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Just a further thought. WSPR doesn't of course spread its power over 6Hz 
it actually transmits full carrier on each of the four frequencies for 
0.682 mS and sometimes several of the same element follow without a 
break in carrier, which accounts for some of the bright spots and lines 
we see when things are marginal. One element is a longer dot time than 
2WPM Morse, and that is SLOW Morse.
Long integration times are out of course.

73 Eddie G3ZJO

On 27/04/2011 18:58, Roger Lapthorn wrote:
> Hi Eddie (et al)
>
> It is highly unlikely you'd copy Andrew on VLF remembering that the 
> WSPR signal spreads around 6Hz in the transmission burst, so the 
> energy in any narrow FFT bin would be tiny. Also, this is earth mode 
> (I hope, as G6ALB does not hold an NoV to radiate at VLF), so signals 
> are propagating through the ground by conduction and no significant 
> amount of signal is radiated.
>
> I'm still intrigued why the best reception here today was with my 80sq 
> m vertical loop. This outperformed several earth electrode set-ups 
> here at the RX end, an E-field probe and a 30t loop laying close to 
> copper pipe work in the house!  If the signals are coming down the 
> pipes then why don't these more direct means of coupling to them work 
> as well as (or better than) a vertical loop outside? Odd.
>
> 73s
> Roger G3XBM
>
>
>
> On 27 April 2011 18:33, qrss <qrss@talktalk.net 
> <mailto:qrss@talktalk.net>> wrote:
>
>     Great stuff Roger and Andrew
>
>     If you are RX'ing on an 80m dipole it may be worth a look here, I
>     would never say can't until I have tried. Bearing in mind I should
>     be able to observe signals which would not be decode able on WSPR
>
>     I would appreciate a prior notification of times and exact
>     frequency of the WSPR signal of any further tests.
>
>     Keep it up.
>
>     73 Eddie G3ZJO
>
>
>     On 27/04/2011 15:19, Roger Lapthorn wrote:
>
>         As an experiment I changed over to my wife's laptop and got
>         immediate decodes of G6ALB's VLF earth mode signal (3km) at
>         -17dB S/N, suggesting the issue with lack of decodes may be
>         with my soundcard and not Andrew's.
>
>         1408 -17 -0.6   0.008986  0 G6ALB JO02 47
>         1410 -17 -0.6   0.008986  0 G6ALB JO02 47
>         1412 -17 -1.2   0.008986  0 G6ALB JO02 47
>         1414 -17 -0.8   0.008986  0 G6ALB JO02 47
>         1416 -17 -0.8   0.008986  0 G6ALB JO02 47
>
>         This is a very solid signal on the 80m square single turn
>         vertical wire loop antenna. Andrew is using 44W to an earth
>         electrode antenna.
>
>         73s
>         Roger G3XBM
>
>         -- 
>         http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>         http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
>         http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
>         https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
> http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
> https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/
>


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    Just a further thought. WSPR doesn't of course spread its power over
    6Hz it actually transmits full carrier on each of the four
    frequencies for 0.682 mS and sometimes several of the same element
    follow without a break in carrier, which accounts for some of the
    bright spots and lines we see when things are marginal. One element
    is a longer dot time than 2WPM Morse, and that is SLOW Morse.<br>
    Long integration times are out of course.<br>
    <br>
    73 Eddie G3ZJO<br>
    &nbsp;<br>
    On 27/04/2011 18:58, Roger Lapthorn wrote:
    <blockquote        cite="mid:BANLkTi=XSUVY5Rm2TvQpQte7vVVbmdZLdQ@mail.gmail.com"        type="cite">Hi Eddie (et al)<br>
      <br>
      It is highly unlikely you'd copy Andrew on VLF remembering that
      the WSPR signal spreads around 6Hz in the transmission burst, so
      the energy in any narrow FFT bin would be tiny. Also, this is
      earth mode (I hope, as G6ALB does not hold an NoV to radiate at
      VLF), so signals are propagating through the ground by conduction
      and no significant amount of signal is radiated. <br>
      <br>
      I'm still intrigued why the best reception here today was with my
      80sq m vertical loop. This outperformed several earth electrode
      set-ups here at the RX end, an E-field probe and a 30t loop laying
      close to copper pipe work in the house!&nbsp; If the signals are coming
      down the pipes then why don't these more direct means of coupling
      to them work as well as (or better than) a vertical loop outside?
      Odd.<br>
      <br>
      73s<br>
      Roger G3XBM<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On 27 April 2011 18:33, qrss <span            dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"              href="mailto:qrss@talktalk.net">qrss@talktalk.net</a>&gt;</span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt            0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);            padding-left: 1ex;">
          Great stuff Roger and Andrew<br>
          <br>
          If you are RX'ing on an 80m dipole it may be worth a look
          here, I would never say can't until I have tried. Bearing in
          mind I should be able to observe signals which would not be
          decode able on WSPR<br>
          <br>
          I would appreciate a prior notification of times and exact
          frequency of the WSPR signal of any further tests.<br>
          <br>
          Keep it up.<br>
          <br>
          73 Eddie G3ZJO
          <div>
            <div class="h5"><br>
              <br>
              On 27/04/2011 15:19, Roger Lapthorn wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt                  0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);                  padding-left: 1ex;">
                As an experiment I changed over to my wife's laptop and
                got immediate decodes of G6ALB's VLF earth mode signal
                (3km) at -17dB S/N, suggesting the issue with lack of
                decodes may be with my soundcard and not Andrew's.<br>
                <br>
                1408 -17 -0.6 &nbsp; 0.008986 &nbsp;0 G6ALB JO02 47<br>
                1410 -17 -0.6 &nbsp; 0.008986 &nbsp;0 G6ALB JO02 47<br>
                1412 -17 -1.2 &nbsp; 0.008986 &nbsp;0 G6ALB JO02 47<br>
                1414 -17 -0.8 &nbsp; 0.008986 &nbsp;0 G6ALB JO02 47<br>
                1416 -17 -0.8 &nbsp; 0.008986 &nbsp;0 G6ALB JO02 47<br>
                <br>
                This is a very solid signal on the 80m square single
                turn vertical wire loop antenna. Andrew is using 44W to
                an earth electrode antenna.<br>
                <br>
                73s<br>
                Roger G3XBM<br>
                <br>
                -- <br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"                    href="http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/</a><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.g3xbm.co.uk"                    target="_blank">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk</a><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"                    href="http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm"                    target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm</a><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"                    href="https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/"                    target="_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/</a><br>
                <br>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              <br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <br clear="all">
      <br>
      -- <br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/"          target="_blank">http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/</a><br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.g3xbm.co.uk"          target="_blank">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk</a><br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm"          target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm</a><br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true"          href="https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/" target="_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/</a><br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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