Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.75]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDE013-5ea44d146cf43b8; Fri, 24 Dec 2010 04:50:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mc03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 078FE380000E9; Fri, 24 Dec 2010 04:50:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PW4HD-0005cH-RI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2010 09:49:31 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PW4HD-0005c8-83 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2010 09:49:31 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PW4HB-0007r0-4P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2010 09:49:31 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.1] (unknown [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD75A4C8143 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2010 10:49:24 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4D146CA3.7090708@online.fr> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 10:49:23 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; fr; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4D122CE9.26517.19CC01F@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <776F8577325D4C4881D6DFA12096E0D3@AGB> <001601cba2cc$b7138910$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <1293134076.24424.16.camel@pat-compaq-evo> <000701cba312$63924420$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4D145A2E.4080706@telus.net> In-Reply-To: <4D145A2E.4080706@telus.net> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Full ID Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604b4d146ced108c X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : temperror X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Scott , Just a word : oui , oui ,oui ;-) ;-) ;-) 73 Jean-Pierre f1afj Le 24/12/2010 09:30, Scott Tilley a =E9crit : > Gee Mal with all that SKILL I wonder why we haven't seen you here yet? > > The only QRM I see is the constant BS beacon from Scarborough on this re= flector. Too bad you don't beacon your drivel on=20 > 2200m as even if the content was your usual high level of nonsense it ma= y help establish the viability of unproven paths. > > But that would require real SKILL to do it... And you lack it. > > Now speaking to the real hams on the reflector... > > Personally, I don't care what someone sends as long as their doing somet= hing on the band with some aim. If they choose to=20 > send a signal char to conduct an experiment so what? Usually there's so= meone in the know on the other end anyway...? A=20 > single char transmitted at a precise time and QRG is really a source enc= oded signal and very handy for testing an extreme path=20 > like G/VE7. But that's a concept lost on poor old Mal. > > I found a handshake process of sending the suffix useful as a way of beg= inning a QSO sequence for extreme DX QSOs. We even=20 > used a single letter as a means of testing prop on the VE7/ZL path. Bot= h stations would alternate sending the first letter in=20 > their call. Then upon receipt the the station would change from sending= their letter to the letter copied. This if copied by=20 > the other station would start a full call exchange at usually a higher= speed... > > The JAs and I evolved this into using the suffixes in 15min RX/TX cycles= . Once we had the QSB patterns mapped we completed a=20 > QSO. > > Unlike high speed ditty dotty dementia exchanges, slow speed exchanges= require a much deeper level of study as you're not=20 > committing to a couple minutes (more like seconds) of focus, but an enti= re night, week of nights or months of nights...! I=20 > personally know the toll that takes on family, work and everything else= so testing before you commit to the grueling slog is=20 > critical. > > 73 Scott > VE7TIL > > > > > > > On 12/24/2010 2:29 AM, mal hamilton wrote: >> I am not the only one that has expressed an opinion about a proper ID >> procedure on LF. Address your remarks to all concerned also stick to th= e >> subject, we are not discussing rubber stamp QSO'S. Have you heard a QSO >> taking place with each station using single Letter Callsigns ? then the >> guessing game via emails Who was that sending an X , W or a P >> Any fool can transmit a machine generated bandslip Beacon but a two way= hand >> send morse QSO requires SKILL >> Beacons used on a narrow band like LF are but unattended QRM generators >> interfering with those trying to engage in two way communications. >> I cannot say that I have heard you on LF or MF so curious why you are= so >> interested in what is going on ???? >> >> g3kev >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "g4gvw" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:54 PM >> Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Full ID >> >> >>> Mal, >>> >>> For many of us who, while licensed radio amateurs, are mainly interest= ed >>> in the behaviour of the spectrum and the medium via which signals are >>> propagated, beacons at UHF, VHF, HF, MF, LF et. al. have for many year= s >>> been a perfectly acceptable and legitimate resource. We don't need to >>> dictate an ID protocol to those generous of their time who provide the= m. >>> All we need to know (ideally in advance) is how to identify the resour= ce >>> and its location together with a few technical details. At that point >>> most of us are possessed of enough innate and inherent wit to engage= our >>> grey matter and draw such conclusions as may be appropriate. These >>> skills are often of more import than the need to achieve a highly >>> regulated and often "rubber-stamped" exchange whose main aim seems to >>> require that some variety of "points-table" is constantly updated with >>> an increasing number! >>> >>> I wish for Christmas SANITY - and Please May It extend THROUGHOUT 2011 >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 18:10 +0000, mal hamilton wrote: >>>> We do not need Beacons on LF this is the problem also why do Applianc= e >>>> Operators on LF need to deviate from the procedures used on all the >> other >>>> amateur bands, who ever heard of single letter Beacons on HF, in fact >> Beacon >>>> operators on HF need special permission. >>>> Radio Operators on the other hand in QSO mode on any band do not have >> this >>>> problem >>>> g3kev >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Graham" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 5:32 PM >>>> Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Full ID >>>> >>>> >>>>> I Suggested a timed beacon system, a long time ago , similar to >> the >>>>> g3plx 5 meg monitoring system , where stations simply took an >>>> available >>>>> time slot and transmitted a long pulse ... monitoring software >> then >>>>> simply looked in the slots and gave a real time s/n reading , >> also >>>>> enabled stations could be in rx mode during there 'off' period >> .... >>>>> Then wspr appeared .......game over ..or is it ... >>>>> >>>>> So what about a timed beacon system that uses allocated time slo= ts >> and >>>>> the monitoring system keeps track or who is using which slot .. >>>>> what a strange idea .. but for LF may have big advantages >>>>> >>>>> All on the same frequency -so no problem with Ae Q / B/W leavi= ng >>>> the >>>>> band open for other modes >>>>> NO need for silly long tx periods , melting station accessori= es >>>>> ONLY needs rudimental time lock >>>>> >>>>> OH and one little oversight .. all you need is a -CW- >> transmitter , >>>>> no frequency shift keying , no audio to rf translation , >>>>> >>>>> Down side . needs some one to write the control software >> ........in >>>> fact >>>>> Andy , ran the basic idea on 500 for quite a while , using -one= - >> of >>>>> the three time slots of the g3plx system, with Gary providing a >>>> off-air >>>>> on line monitor 200 miles north >>>>> >>>>> G >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Chris" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:20 AM >>>>> To: >>>>> Subject: LF: Re: RE: Full ID >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Rik, >>>>>> The idea is fine. But, the problems I have with this are (1) >> Stations >>>>>> don't always notify us who they are and what they are up to (Mike, >>>> G3XDV, >>>>>> is a perfect example of how it should be done, keeping us FULLY >>>> informed), >>>>>> and (2) is where I agree with Stefan, what about listeners (lookers= ) >> who >>>>>> are not on this refelector? Two letters are of little use to them.= I >>>> know >>>>>> two stations near me who look on 137 but are not on here - for >> various >>>>>> reasons. >>>>>> You just can't beat a full callsign, even if you do sometimes only >> get >>>>>> snatches of it. As it is, stations are often 'identified' by >> frequency >>>>>> with very dubious visual evidence! >>>>>> Chris, G4AYT. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Rik Strobbe" >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:04 AM >>>>>> Subject: LF: RE: Full ID >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Mike, all, >>>>>> >>>>>> for propagation test purposes (sound much better than beaconing) al= l >> we >>>>>> need is an unambiguous identification. A single character will lead >> to >>>>>> confusion, but 2 characters should do the job. >>>>>> So what about using the 2 last characters of the callsign ? >>>>>> That would make most ID's more or less of the same length. >>>>>> G3XDV would use "DV", OR7T would use "7T", DF6NM would use "NM" and >> so >>>> on. >>>>>> I cannot see any conflicts right now (=3D 2 stations active in >> propagation >>>>>> tests with identical 2 last characters). >>>>>> Is national law requires a full id it can always be send in 12WMP >> CW. >>>>>> 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>>>>> [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Mike Dennison >>>>>> [mike.dennison@ntlworld.com] >>>>>> Verzonden: woensdag 22 december 2010 17:52 >>>>>> Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>>>>> Onderwerp: LF: Full ID >>>>>> >>>>>> OK, it seems that most people want full suffixes to be sent. I >>>>>> believe I had good reasons to use a short ID, but I am happy to go >>>>>> along with the majority view. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course the final straw was Mal threatening not to talk to me! >>>>>> >>>>>> Beacon tonight (in addition to, and not instead of, real QSOs) will >>>>>> be on 136.177kHz, 'XDV' synchronised with the start of each hour. >>>>>> >>>>>> 73 de Mike >>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> --=20 >>> 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw >>> qth nr felixstowe uk >>> (east coast, county of suffolk) >>> >>> >> >> > > >