Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.205]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDC081-86044ce7fcac32a; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 11:51:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6BD3A380000CA; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 11:51:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PJqdx-00013x-0a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:50:29 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PJqdw-00013o-Ge for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:50:28 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PJqdv-0000i7-SK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:50:28 +0000 Received: from aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20101120165021.MWMQ19887.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:50:21 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.5.252.15]) by aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.3.00.04.00 201-2196-133-20080908) with ESMTP id <20101120165020.LZSY20122.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:50:20 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:50:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4CE7FC47.21165.4FBFDFD@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-description: Mail message body X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=JvdXmxIgLJv2/GthKqHpGJEEHukvLcvELVXUanXFreg= c=1 sm=0 a=JJMYBxXhO0wA:10 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=k_MfdguYQZvVLPg9KMYA:9 a=CPdsnMEEEc4HOuDIAIwA:7 a=hCfHNwff530jwk2pioqlPkLfpWsA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: 136kHz Eu DX frequency - summary Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cd4ce7fcab7af7 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 There have been 6 comments on whether the Eu DX slot on 136.320kHz is=20 still useful. To summarise: Grabbers: One more Eu station has provided a grabber on 136.320, and=20 one active NA station has stated he is unable to add this sub-band.=20 Only two grabbers are available outside Europe to monitor this=20 frequency - RW3ADB (which is almost always off), and KL7UK on demand.=20 It is therefore difficult for a Eu station to offer an occasional=20 beacon on the Eu sub-band as there=B4s nobody listening. There have been two practical solutions to avoiding local QRM to DX=20 stations. Split-frequency: This was used some years ago when there was lots of=20 Eu DX activity and east coast W/VE stations were monitoring. For=20 instance, Eu transmit on 136.320 and NA transmit on 137.777. Split timing: This was used successfully this year on the JA-VE=20 route. For instance, JA transmit on the hour and half hour, and VE=20 transmit on the quarter and three-quarter hour. A suggested solution=20 has been to use alternate days for Eu and NA. Both of the above solutions are fine but they only work for two=20 locations at a time. If a third location is added to the mix, such as=20 Russia, or both East and West Coast America, the solution breaks=20 down. For instance, Eu transmits on 136.320, UA transmits on 137.777,=20 but NA also transmits on 137.777 and is prevented from receiving the=20 UA stations. A resolution would require at least three DX slots, with=20 every grabber equipped to receive them. The split timing solution=20 would also need additional timing slots which might lead to openings=20 being missed.=20 It is possible to devise a complex solution involving both time and=20 frequency, especially as the hours of darkness move round the world,=20 but it need all operators to cooperate.=20 Is there a real problem? I don=B4t think there is a practical problem=20 at present. Activity is low and most stations are in touch with each=20 other via this reflector. If/when the USA gets an allocation at=20 136kHz, I can see a real need for some kind of plan, but that=B4s not=20 for a while yet. In the meantime, it is of course important for beacon operators to=20 make every effort to avoid interfering with each other. Frequency=20 spacing is an obvious way, as well as making sure that there are=20 listening gaps between transmissions. It would also help if more=20 grabber operators could open more receive slots. To sum up my own position, I have not found any evidence of=20 propagation research or QSOs being affected by my occasional beacon=20 on 137.7752kHz, so I will continue to use this frequency. I will also=20 use 136.3182kHz whenever I can be sure there is a person or machine=20 available to receive my signals. I will also try to limit beacons in=20 time. As always, if anyone has a practical problem, I am happy to switch=20 off. Mike, G3XDV =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D