Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.88]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDE062-5eb74c1287deec; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:00:46 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 108DD3800009E; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ON9SI-0000Ts-QO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:59:50 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ON9SI-0000Tj-EA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:59:50 +0100 Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com ([74.208.5.67]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ON9SG-00052E-IN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:59:50 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 11 Jun 2010 18:59:41 -0000 Received: from 75-168-143-142.mpls.qwest.net (EHLO [192.168.1.100]) [75.168.143.142] by mail.gmx.com (mp-us001) with SMTP; 11 Jun 2010 14:59:41 -0400 X-Authenticated: #60769621 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19ekzEa4FVewz1IbNrI2tmWrRMNeA1miZ/6FJ7o5v MUyvLVPumUwMVV Message-ID: <4C12878A.4080909@gmx.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:59:22 -0500 From: Mike-WE0H User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20100317) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002401cb096b$7d950560$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <003a01cb097f$640755d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <003a01cb097f$640755d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: LF/VLF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60584c1287dc1f49 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) I did testing several years ago with a 200' TX loop and a 45' vertical with a 72' flattop. The band was 1750 meters. The loop and the vertical were mounted in the woods with 70' plus oak trees. What was found was at outside air temperatures of 32F and above, the vertical's signal hardly radiated groundwave or skywave. The signal from the vertical was barely audible at 75 miles and not visible in ARGO at 1000 miles. The TX loop signal was S-9 at 75 miles and showing real well in ARGO at 1000 miles. The groundwave receive station was at 75 miles from the TX site. The skywave station was at roughly 1000 miles from the TX site. As the temperature went down from 32F, the vertical's radiated signal increased until the temperature was roughly 10F where the vertical's signal matched the TX loops signal on both the 75 mile & the 1000 mile receive sites. The TX loop was a Bill Ashlock loop design, series resonated with low loss caps and transformer coupled with a -43 material ferrite core. The transformer turns ratio was set to match a 50 ohm amplifier output impedance. This TX loop was in a vertical plane laying in the tree tops and running 6' off the ground on the bottom side. Similar testing proved a TX loop was not necessary on the 600 meter band as trees do not significantly affect a 600m signal. Other US Amateur's have tested TX loops and verticals around trees on the 2200 meter band and found the TX loop was necessary on that band when there was a lot of trees nearby. Mike WE0H WD2XSH/16 WD2XGI