Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi11.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.169]) by air-mc05.mail.aol.com (v128.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC052-a9684bb3da66305; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:27:34 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 539813800009A; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nx7IK-0003Fn-0q for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 00:25:56 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nx7IJ-0003Fd-J8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 00:25:55 +0100 Received: from mailout.toya.net.pl ([217.113.224.27] ident=postfix) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nx7IG-0001Sh-Ox for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 00:25:55 +0100 Received: from mail.toya.net.pl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6658620000061 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 01:25:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [10.3.148.9]) (Authenticated sender: unimlyn) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DA502000004B for ; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 01:25:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4BB3D9FE.2010803@toya.net.pl> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 01:25:50 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgTcWCeW5hcnNraQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B9FD008.2070607@abelian.org> <4BAAA535.4050401@toya.net.pl> <4BAB1E85.1060304@abelian.org> <4BABA614.4030303@abelian.org> <4BABF362.8000703@toya.net.pl> <4BAC6F82.5020300@abelian.org> In-Reply-To: <4BAC6F82.5020300@abelian.org> X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Ionospheric VLF propagation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cded34bb3da64659c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Paul Nicholson wrote: > > Piotr wrote: > > I will also try to program these formulae > > It's a challenge - those Legendre functions with complex > parameters... there's an expression involving hypergeometric > functions and some code for that in 'Numerical Recipes in C', > either that or (very!) carefully transcribe/port the code in > the paper's appendix. > Dear Paul, LF group Yes, you are right - it is some kind of challenge to calculate Legendre functions with a complez degree - well, at least because you rather do not do it on , say, everyday basis :) Indeed, it is well known that you can compute Legendre functions using 2F1 function of a complex argument and further, usingasymptotic expansion but one must be careful with some values of theta and modulus of "nu " ( i use notation from Lowenfels paper ) The paper has a Matlab code which i am not even going to 'digest' I do fortran programming and i prefer to do it 'from the scratch' except that , of course, i have subroutines for Legendre polynomials with integer degree and order which (as it has appeared) were needed - I have found Jones and Burke paper [Journal of Physics: A : Mathematical and General; Vol.23, 3159-3168(1990) ] where you can find a compact formulae obtained by integration etc... those summations /formulae are really compact and have very elegant (mathematically) form so one deals with rather straightforward programming. Paul, i have a pdf copy of that article and if you wish i can send it to you directly as attachment (540kb) On other issues related to Stefan VLF experiment... to make a long story a short one... i was reading Lowenfels paper and particulary did not like the numerical fits of attenuation constants alpha and of phase velocity ( chapter 5.3) those fits involve polynomials up to 12th order! it is not good from numerical point of view to use such a high degree etc.. anyway, i was looking for papers where i could find those values based on some experimental data ( i did find it for Stefan freq 8.97 kHz ) with MUCH simpler fits.as i was interested only in one freq and not going into ELF regions. as a 'side product' of my search i have found an excellent review paper "ELF and VLF radio waves" by Barr, Jones and Rodger. published in " Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics" Vol. 62, 1689-1718(2000) some info upon VLF antennae... for Stefan , for his consideration.. in 1989 a balloon ( not kite ;) ) lofted antenna 3.8 kilometers long was used at f =25.3khz , later it was also used at 104 Hz (ELF) with radiated pwr of 40mW which in terms of efficiency , was corresponding to 1.6 Watt radiated vs 1 MW input TX pwr now something which should make Stefan being even more satisfied with his experiments In 1993 , the loop wire was placed through a tunnel 1.2 km long and going up along the mountain through which the tunnel was made the apex was 600 m above the tunnel center. this system was radiating 75 mW for every kilowatt of input pwr at 10 khz ; signal was detected at 200 km from TX place i.e. tunnel :) now , comes really interesting experiment.. there was an unsuccessful attempt to deploy a long wire ( a very very long wire) from the Space Shuttle to generate electric power from its motion in the earth's magnetic field and to radiate ELF signal. after 19.7 km !!! wire in space it has been fractured but the pwr generated was greater than expected, however no signal has been radiated. it was 1996 mission. 73, piotr , sq7mpj qth; Lodz /jo91rs/