Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 069BD380000B3; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Qt43V-00081p-FS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 21:46:41 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Qt43U-00081g-OP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 21:46:40 +0100 Received: from mail-wy0-f171.google.com ([74.125.82.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Qt43S-0003iv-8X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 21:46:40 +0100 Received: by wyh13 with SMTP id 13so5805997wyh.16 for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 13:46:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:mime-version :content-type:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:importance:x-mailer :x-mimeole; bh=r7KFqnSDvQJm27ggLU8M6J8z9VvJycU3X2LAI+NUYSE=; b=hIHDWFekXxmCzw90bjvYs72Z6kqaWZKeG2xFqbhJLxmJWynOraYDBbf2iqX4URJhcb PACiu2MBq1auD1gf6UFJHFe01Wg3H0nZVbTQ+OtXXSz8IAJXPaZ9HWJUg+OK7+9bOT/n Z5dElffxTctebOXwX8YaKLQ2cHbonWO9Wjz6c= Received: by 10.216.188.207 with SMTP id a57mr3521517wen.94.1313441192023; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 13:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PcMinto (h50208.upc-h.chello.nl [62.194.50.208]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e7sm2754071wed.9.2011.08.15.13.46.30 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 15 Aug 2011 13:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <49CFB2DEFFA24818A48DC9E505250723@PcMinto> From: Minto Witteveen To: References: <68BE37BD69E54DEE89CEBA8E30E9B94E@PcMinto> <4E47FFE9.10100@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <3ED8E5422F1F45DBB8186E9D9870AD63@PcMinto> <4E480E02.9020706@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <938BF599006244949F6CDDB5BA91F347@PcMinto> <4E482FBD.7030402@freenet.de> <4E484183.9090805@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4E48556B.7030906@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: <4E48556B.7030906@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 22:46:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3538.513 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3538.513 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Ferrite RX antennas Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01CC5B9D.28B056A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:374771456:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m214.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600c4e4985e46a36 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CC5B9D.28B056A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting read=E2=80=A6 () However after a few paragraphs I was unable to read any further because = I became distracted by all the bullshit-detector alarm bells going off = in my head.=20 Oh come on, this really reads like pseudo science/conspiracy theory. Some quotes:: =C2=B7 (Like Stefan said:) =E2=80=9CThe best=E2=80=A6 = ever=E2=80=9D=20 =C2=B7 =E2=80=9C my expression of total disdain at the manner in = which scientific theories..=E2=80=9D =C2=B7 =E2=80=9Cdogmatic repetition, and worse, the = indoctrination of erroneous hypotheses into formative student = minds=E2=80=9D =C2=B7 =E2=80=9Cby the so-called "know-men" of science who = control education curricula in our schools=E2=80=9D =C2=B7 =E2=80=9Cmust also have been similarly disabled from = inventing a similar type of inductor due to the same seriously flawed = concepts we have all been *taught* to adhere to - and - which we have so = clearly accepted and believed as if truth.=E2=80=9D =C2=B7 =E2=80=9Cbut there is no way that Patent Officers could = accept my explanation of how the design works due to my need to state = hypotheses very different to the 'theory' they would be obliged to = maintain during any filing=E2=80=9D =C2=B7 Etcetera etcetera=E2=80=A6. =20 I can=E2=80=99t comment on his theories themselves (can anybody??) but = the wording in this document is classic conspiracy-theory. He has = invented/discovered new laws of physics even though he has been = brainwashed by =E2=80=98those evil and close-minded scientists=E2=80=99, = the government is against him (Patent Officers), and so on. I am not convinced. =20 73=E2=80=99s Minto pa3bca -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse From: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer=20 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 01:08 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Ferrite RX antennas Interesting! Can anyone of the experts comment on this concept? After scrolling down through pages of text i just found a few photos. = The mechanical concept is clear. But the author appears almost esoteric to me, like a guru of that = antenna, "The best compact AM antenna in the world - ever!" So it is said that 20 ferrite rods in that arrangement perform 20 dB = better than a single rod. OK, but how well performs such a signgle rod? = 20 dB is maybe not enough, compared to a well designed single turn loop, = which i have now. My goal is always LF/137, not MF BCD stations or so. = The advantage of the ferrite solution, if sensitivity is sufficient to = be well above the noise on a quiet day, would be to be completely free = in all /p sesions (without a car). Would it be possible to reasonable simulate that antenna (not an = accurate model but rather an estimation)? 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 15.08.2011 00:04, schrieb Roelof Bakker:=20 Hello all,=20 If you have time to read it all, this might be interesting:=20 http://www.gmweb2.net/The%20FS%20Loop.htm=20 or Google for Ferrite Sleeve Loop.=20 73,=20 Roelof, pa0rdt=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CC5B9D.28B056A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Interesting read=E2=80=A6 ()

However after a few paragraphs I was unable to read any = further=20 because I became distracted by all the bullshit-detector alarm bells = going off=20 in my head.

Oh come on, this really reads like pseudo = science/conspiracy=20 theory.
Some quotes::

=C2=B7        =20 (Like Stefan said:) =E2=80=9CThe best=E2=80=A6 = ever=E2=80=9D

=C2=B7        =20 =E2=80=9C my=20 expression of total disdain at the manner in which scientific=20 theories..=E2=80=9D

=C2=B7        =20 =E2=80=9Cdogmatic=20 repetition, and worse, the indoctrination of erroneous hypotheses into = formative=20 student minds=E2=80=9D

=C2=B7        =20 =E2=80=9Cby the=20 so-called "know-men" of science who control education curricula in our=20 schools=E2=80=9D

=C2=B7        =20 =E2=80=9Cmust also=20 have been similarly disabled from inventing a similar type of inductor = due to=20 the same seriously flawed concepts we have all been *taught* to adhere = to - and=20 - which we have so clearly accepted and believed as if = truth.=E2=80=9D

=C2=B7        =20 =E2=80=9Cbut there=20 is no way that Patent Officers could accept my explanation of how the = design=20 works due to my need to state hypotheses very different to the 'theory' = they=20 would be obliged to maintain during any filing=E2=80=9D

=C2=B7        =20  Etcetera = etcetera=E2=80=A6.

 

I can=E2=80=99t comment on his theories themselves (can = anybody??) but the=20 wording in this document is classic conspiracy-theory. He has=20 invented/discovered new laws of physics even though he has been = brainwashed by=20 =E2=80=98those evil and close-minded scientists=E2=80=99, the government = is against him (Patent=20 Officers), and so on.

I am not convinced.

 

73=E2=80=99s Minto = pa3bca

 
-------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Ceterum=20 censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
 
From: Stefan = Sch=C3=A4fer
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 01:08
Subject: Re: LF: Ferrite RX antennas
 
Interesting!

Can=20 anyone of the experts comment on this concept?

After scrolling = down=20 through pages of text i just found a few photos. The mechanical concept = is=20 clear.
But the author appears almost esoteric to me, like a guru of = that=20 antenna,  "The best compact AM antenna in the world -=20 ever!"

So it is said that 20 ferrite rods in that = arrangement=20 perform 20 dB better than a single rod. OK, but how well performs such a = signgle=20 rod? 20 dB is maybe not enough, compared to a well designed single turn = loop,=20 which i have now.  My goal is always LF/137, not MF BCD stations or = so. The=20 advantage of the ferrite solution, if sensitivity is sufficient to be = well above=20 the noise on a quiet day, would be to be completely free in all /p = sesions=20 (without a car).

Would it be possible to reasonable simulate that = antenna=20 (not an accurate model but rather an estimation)?

73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC



Am 15.08.2011 00:04, schrieb = Roelof=20 Bakker:=20
Hello = all,=20

If you have time to read it all, this might be interesting: =

http://www.gmweb2.net/= The%20FS%20Loop.htm=20

or Google for Ferrite Sleeve Loop.

73,
Roelof, = pa0rdt=20
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