Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dl04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E4C803800008C; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 20:10:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TqZJI-0005AJ-Ax for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:09:28 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TqZJH-0005AA-Fd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:09:27 +0000 Received: from nm2.bt.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.183.200]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TqZJE-0001FA-Hu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:09:26 +0000 Received: from [217.146.183.196] by nm2.bt.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2013 01:09:03 -0000 Received: from [217.12.12.18] by tm2.bt.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2013 01:09:03 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2013 01:09:03 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1357175343; bh=s7AD2c+E0vzZ7iypr2DSIk9mOTFHaaauA8GB066zfVU=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-Antivirus:X-Antivirus-Status; b=SRnQYSelGB4skd7UrQmI7l17VdjLrLvcqVXprTe7d3Qje2OAr5jV2NE8ggp+zEbjMnWDFS3JSYsM5Zc1wS8uYTme+VfFPgFtq+AY8eVjD/TXhAqVenERRp+pgO6FcRvX1DjiuXCrtq5XO/mMsJ+mBRjaq0uB8M/PQFHiEw7hTYU= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 736770.65587.bm@smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: fUsgru8VM1nlN8MZZPlrTM3PXqzWraF0mQwJAhg75xySeuD MKBAyGjuCyAm0Fn8Zy4yBpL7mpod62ZYsIDsaWTdeF6gt2tjUnIUM04wP_Ny A2hhSk7GO51Gr1CQLuQWKvuJ7SXFFL1EooVhM9Xk9xKO_aUSZUDBrHtoo.eC 7sN07W48Bm7gz8ez_aNyXA6g7KSGUyo4Iv2jsLkgp.TMiDt8.n4o4vG0DufB rVdfQpCi34OI1tJgc0r4C3_o0Uvvo8zEsaAwCHQO2fZ01nSVLllMGg7yTQF6 bT7FXfLAazNbiYWwFboGQ_thmD_et_F8A4Ukuy3waBVj47dqUaIIFsG6J8J0 FB5N91z0GcYPigpc5A1Npck0vyqdKnoqppwGL7iQq755PMBWdQudXaf52ICF 8ah3SvyRGOKKw_0zrNAksKlzEkfI7DBYP0N9KnQDF93c6afT0Q7_dhiyz8OM W15cPBmA- X-Yahoo-SMTP: fpz.2VeswBBs59bVshRPmMN51lcO2lgFRIvE4XTqE8dRwOxd70E- Received: from gnat (alan.melia@86.167.14.131 with login) by smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 02 Jan 2013 17:09:03 -0800 PST Message-ID: <48BBF8CC892E4164B0E96E856BB44972@gnat> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: <0A4D88A68FCB4F22A2BC40825788A6AA@AGB> <1357150913.48886.YahooMailNeo@web133204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <63C5AFAA6F8C41A7936F2069D38FAC01@AGB> <81FED2F455C94E45B3BE41353A6D53BC@W1KW> <52B2628757094925BA8206A2C0D9640B@AGB> <1357173044.69099.YahooMailNeo@web133203.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 01:05:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 130102-1, 02/01/2013), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Just a thought.....when it gets totally washed out with SSB all 24 hours how are you going to clean it out? People in general dont follow gentlemen's agreements they were not party too.....and "it doesnt say I cant in the licence". [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [217.146.183.200 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines X-Scan-Signature: 9286c42f36aec8c717df8c33686f6171 Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_014A_01CDE94E.6BB24AE0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-dl04.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4ad250e4da8115dd X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_014A_01CDE94E.6BB24AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a thought.....when it gets totally washed out with SSB all 24 hours = how are you going to clean it out? People in general dont follow = gentlemen's agreements they were not party too.....and "it doesnt say I = cant in the licence".=20 I fear that, though what you suggest would work, it might encourage = mayhem. I would prefer to see those who feel uncomfortable using a morse = key on other bands, improve their skill on 475 by not being under = HF-band like pressure. I dont listen there now but 10MHz used to be a = guide for what you can expect wher SSB is not actually banned from a = narrow band. Dont forget, to SSB-only ops CW is just interference. The = plus point is they will have to make a transverter first, but then a few = badly aligned tranverters on SSB could be a disaster. I think the = Swedish station was was Gus SM?BHZ, and the SSB wiped out several DX CW = qsos I knew of at the time. It was a commercial licence not an amateur = one, so voice ID may have been in the conditions. Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 12:30 AM Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Hi Graham Geri and all Warren has seen SSB first hand on the MF QRG and we have this side = also.There was an SM station (call sign forgotten?) in the early days of = 500 that added an SSB anouncement on his beacon and it worked well. To my spec. :- "One SSB channel at the high edge of the band only used = during daylight hours no DXing!" add " Use VOX, no monologuing allowed" = to be a laissez faire operation no band plan, but fair play!.73 es GL es = HNY Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2013, 20:48 Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Geri 800 Hz B/W ... May be this is something 'Wolf' can code for = you ? a b/w compression / expansion module in SL , to limit the = tx b/w to 800 Hz must be possible to divide by 3 and mult by = 3 with a linear shift as well ? G.. From: Holger 'Geri', DK8KW - DI2BO - W1KW=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:36 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Hi, I kind of like the idea of an SSB channel. I just pulled out the = conditions of my first secial license for 160m from 1973 or 1974. That = said 1815 to 1835 kHz with 10 Watts in CW, additionally one SSB channel = for 1832 to 1835 kHz, so why not trying this on 630m, too? Here in = Germany we are currently limited to 800 Hz bandwidt but I am sure we can = sork towards a special license under certain conditions such as daylight = operation only .. sounds good to me! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Hi Pete Its quite obvious that the allocation is quite able to = support normal armature activity , and why not ? its no longer a = experimental allocation , its just the same as 10 or top band , = un expected results today though ! ssb sounds odd , may be as = the path is stable , sstv ? must be a narrow mode , and the = 'new' digital voice is 2KHz , but that requires a linear Tx = path =20 As for the band edge=20 I'm straining to find a engineering reason , that wspr = and qrss has decided to run mid band ? Im sure users had a = reasonable discussion at the introduction of the band , to place = the modes at the edges , with live cw a the lower portion ? its = well know that these long carrier modes cause disruption to = other band users and are well placed at the band edges , = 'vanity beacons' is a term I have seen noted in referral, as = occupancy increases , by users not linked or even aware of = discussions taking place on these groups , i'm sure there will be = problems leading to the introduction of band plan's , for some = the plans form part of the licence conditions .. Is Opera a vanity system ? , actually no, it compliments = ros- data mode in that the ave s/n readings can be used to = determine if a path will support the data mode , each having = the same averaging s/n reading taken along the time line ,=20 73 -G.. From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:21 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Hi all One SSB channel at the high edge of the band only used during = daylight hours no DXing! 73 es GL es HNY Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2013, 16:13 Subject: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Quite intriguing propagation on this 'new' band=20 From some unexpected early 600 mile + Opera decodes = last night , to several wspr TA decodes , [G8's again ..] = to today's test with Gary using USB-SSB voice ,=20 Where as at 1300z we had 5/9 signals each way as = expected over 25 miles , GI3PDN Ray , called on CW , to give = a report of 5/9 across the Irish Sea , some 100 miles for our = two signals , his CW also in the 5/9/9 region, one wonders how = far inland the signals travelled ? After a short 3 way qso, we closed the test round 1330z , = may not of been quite as sociable after dark , but with a = small Ae , 40 x 70 ft iv L and 35 ft Top load vert , 50 = watts pep , results defiantly superior to say 160 mtrs using = the same Ae's=20 73 -G G0NBD ------=_NextPart_000_014A_01CDE94E.6BB24AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just a thought.....when it gets totally = washed out=20 with SSB all 24 hours how are you going to clean it out? People in = general dont=20 follow gentlemen's agreements they were not party too.....and "it doesnt = say I=20 cant in the licence". 
 
I fear that, though what you suggest = would work, it=20 might encourage mayhem. I would prefer to see those who feel = uncomfortable using=20 a morse key on other bands, improve their skill on 475 by not = being=20 under HF-band like pressure. I dont listen there now but 10MHz used to = be a=20 guide for what you can expect wher SSB is not actually banned from a = narrow=20 band. Dont forget, to SSB-only ops CW is just interference. The = plus point=20 is they will have to make a transverter first, but then a few badly = aligned=20 tranverters on SSB could be a disaster. I think the Swedish station was = was Gus=20 SM?BHZ, and the SSB wiped out several DX CW qsos I knew of at the time. = It was a=20 commercial licence not an amateur one, so voice ID may have = been in=20 the conditions.
 
Alan
G3NYK
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 M0FMT
Sent: Thursday, January 03, = 2013 12:30=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local = SSB chat=20 band ?

Hi Graham Geri and all
 
Warren has seen SSB first hand on the MF QRG and we have = this side=20 also.There was an SM station (call sign forgotten?) in the early days = of=20 500 that added an SSB anouncement on his beacon and it = worked=20 well.
 
To my spec. :- "One SSB channel at the high edge of = the band=20 only used during daylight hours no DXing!" add " Use VOX, no = monologuing=20 allowed" to be a laissez faire operation no band plan, but fair=20 play!.73 es GL es HNY Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham=20 <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Sent: Wednesday, = 2 January=20 2013, 20:48
Subject: Re:=20 LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ?

Geri
 
800 Hz  B/W ...  May  be this  is =20 something  'Wolf' can  code  for  you  ? = a =20 b/w   compression / expansion  module in SL  , = to  limit=20 the  tx b/w  to  800  Hz must  be  = possible=20 to  divide  by  3  and  mult  by  = 3 =20 with a  linear shift  as  well ?
 
G..

From: Holger 'Geri', DK8KW - DI2BO - = W1KW=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:36 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band = ?

Hi,
 
I kind of like the idea of an SSB = channel. I=20 just pulled out the conditions of my first secial license for 160m = from 1973=20 or 1974. That said 1815 to 1835 kHz with 10 Watts in CW, = additionally one=20 SSB channel for 1832 to 1835 kHz, so why not trying this on 630m, = too? Here=20 in Germany we are currently limited to 800 Hz bandwidt but I am sure = we can=20 sork towards a special license under certain conditions such as = daylight=20 operation only .. sounds good to me!
 
Vy 73
 
Geri, DK8KW
 
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 Graham
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20 Sent:=20 Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:58 PM Subject:=20 Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ?

Hi Pete
 
Its  quite  obvious that  the  = allocation =20 is   quite  able  to  support =20 normal   armature  activity , and  why  = not =20 ? its no  longer a experimental  allocation , its just = the =20 same  as   10  or top  band , un = expected =20 results  today though !  ssb  sounds  = odd  ,=20 may  be  as  the  path is  stable = ,  =20 sstv ?  must  be a  narrow  mode  , and = the =20 'new'  digital  voice  is 2KHz  , but = that =20 requires  a  linear  Tx  path 
 
As  for  the  band edge
 
 I'm  straining  to  find  a =20 engineering   reason  , that  wspr  = and =20 qrss  has  decided to  run mid band ? Im = sure =20 users had a  reasonable discussion  at the =20 introduction  of the  band , to  place the =20 modes  at the  edges , with  live  cw a = the =20 lower  portion ?  its well  know  = that =20 these  long  carrier  modes  cause =20 disruption  to  other  band  users and  = are =20 well  placed  at the  band  edges  , = 'vanity  beacons'  is a term I have  = seen =20 noted  in referral, as occupancy  increases , by = users =20 not  linked or  even  aware  of =20  discussions   taking place on these  groups , = i'm=20 sure there  will  be  problems  = leading =20 to  the  introduction  of  band plan's  , = for  some  the  plans  form  part of = the =20 licence  conditions ..
 
Is Opera  a vanity  system ? , actually  = no,=20 it  compliments   ros-  data  mode in = that =20 the  ave s/n   readings  can be used to =20 determine  if  a  path  will  = support =20 the  data  mode , each  having  the =20 same   averaging  s/n  reading  taken = along=20 the  time  line  ,
 
73 -G..
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

From: M0FMT
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:21 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band = ?

Hi all
 
One SSB channel at the high edge of the band only used = during=20 daylight hours no DXing!

73 es GL es HNY Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>= ;
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Sent: = Wednesday, 2=20 January 2013, 16:13
Subject: LF: 477 A local = SSB chat=20 band ?

Quite  intriguing  propagation  on = this =20 'new'  band
 
From  some  unexpected  early  600 = mile =20 +   Opera  decodes  last  night  , = to  several   wspr   TA  decodes = , =20 [G8's  again = ..]     to  =20 today's   test  with  Gary  = using  =20 USB-SSB  voice ,
 
Where  as at   1300z  =  we =20 had  5/9  signals each  way  as =20 expected   over 25 miles  ,  = GI3PDN  =20 Ray  , called  on CW , to   give  = a =20 report of  5/9 across  the  Irish   = Sea  ,=20 some  100  miles  for  our  two  = signals ,=20 his  CW also  in the  5/9/9  region, = one =20 wonders  how  far  inland  the signals  = travelled  ?
 
After a  short 3  way  qso,  we closed=20 the  test  round 1330z  ,  may  = not of=20 been  quite  as  sociable  after  = dark  ,=20 but  with a  small  Ae  , 40 x 70  = ft  iv=20 L  and   35  ft  Top load  = vert  ,=20 50  watts  pep  , results  = defiantly  =20 superior  to  say  160  mtrs  = using =20 the  same  Ae's
 
73 -G
G0NBD
 
 
=
 




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