Return-Path: Received: from rly-da06.mx.aol.com (rly-da06.mail.aol.com [172.19.129.80]) by air-da10.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDA102-a71485a7bef128; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:32:24 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-da06.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDA061-a71485a7bef128; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:32:01 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1K9M6v-0000V1-VI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:31:41 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1K9M6v-0000Us-J7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:31:41 +0100 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1K9M6q-0004bw-Ok for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:31:41 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,673,1204498800"; d="scan'208";a="12151388" Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Jun 2008 17:31:17 +0200 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m5JFVHIV031597; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:31:17 +0200 Received: from dhcp-gpk02-vlan300-64-103-65-100.cisco.com (dhcp-gpk02-vlan300-64-103-65-100.cisco.com [64.103.65.100]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5JFVHGb017890; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:31:17 GMT Message-ID: <485A7BC5.1080206@g3ysx.org.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:31:17 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Macintosh/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005301c8d182$93d802a0$0200a8c0@LapTop1> <008f01c8d189$47145a20$0900a8c0@AM> In-Reply-To: Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=stewart@g3ysx.org.uk; dkim=neutral X-Karma: 0: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Loran C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: domain : post.thorcom.co ; SPF_helo = X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: domain : g3ysx.org.u ; SPF_822_from = X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Andy Talbot wrote: > The article has a very good point to make about GPS jamming though. I > think its probably the first time I've seen it talked about in the > open-press. Our telecomms infrastructure now is so critically > dependent on accurate timing that a few well deployed low power > jammers could cause serious disruption. Although modern communications systems are dependent on sync, the current systems in the UK need frequency not time. Although the UK SDH networks use GPS for local time sources, to drive reference oscillators, all the systems I know use multiple Cesiums as a backup. Most other networks (for example the mobile phone networks) connect to an SDH network by some means or other and take their sync from that source. The big R&D problem in this space is how we manage the migration to packet networks with Ethernet delivery, and great lengths are being taken to avoid the need to rely on GPS for critical sync functions. Indeed GPS-only sync would be regarded as a show-stopper by all of the sync network designers I have spoken to. A lot of newer sync technology (the media access systems) needs relatively course (1us class) time as well as frequency to function, but there is work in hand to deliver that over packet networks (IEEE1588, IETF TICTOC etc) So I would not worry about GPS jamming disrupting comms. Navigation is a different matter, and as Alan says Loran is vulnerable, perhaps not quite as vulnerable as civilian GPS, but certainly more vulnerable than seems to be claimed. Stewart/G3YSX