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References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B107DD2@servigilant.vigilant.local>,<5560EA8D.7010900@posteo.de> <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B108FD7@servigilant.vigilant.local> <7A651A0B3918477C83929D2A2843414B@AGB>,<B3224BDD33C44AA48001560127967E41@AGB> <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B109208@servigilant.vigilant.local>,<556265D7.8050809@posteo.de> <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B109A90@servigilant.vigilant.local>
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Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 14:16:30 +0200
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Subject: RE: LF: EA5DOM <crazy> vertical
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Hi Luis, 

>Most of the time only to discover that 
>their pricy Icom is almost deaf on MF

That's certainly not the case for current Icom transceiver models.
I wonder to which Icom gear you are referring to.
Let's take a not so pricy Icom,the IC-7100.
Its MDS in 500Hz BW was measured by ARRL on 475kHz with -126dBm w/o preamp
and -136dBm with preamp 1 which means a
noise figure of about 21dB and 11dB respectively. 
The 7410 (same price class) has the same manufacturer specs so it should perform
equally with respect to noise figure. 
Man made noise on 500kHz in "quiet rural areas" according to ITU chart P.372-11
is ~62dB (which is below the galactic noise) so you have a margin of 41dB/resp. 51dB
in extremely quiet locations!!
In cities man made noise can be expected with about 85dB... 
The medium price class IC-7600 even has a noise figure of 17dB w/o preamp and 9dB with preamp 1 and  on 500kHz
according to ARRL measurments.
Even my 12 years old IC-706MK2G has at 2.4kHz BW a MDS of -112dBm (=>28dB NF)
w/o and -117dBm (=>23dB NF) with preamp on 472kHz as measured by myself
which is still more than adequate for MW (margin is 39dB with preamp).


73
Clemens
DL4RAJ 


>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org 
>[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of 
>VIGILANT Luis Fernández
>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 9:33 AM
>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>Subject: Re: LF: EA5DOM <crazy> vertical
>
>Hi Stefan, MF