Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-db03.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDB031-85ef4cefa7cf137; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 07:27:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8158938000122; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 07:27:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PLxO4-0001Tp-QC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:26:48 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PLxO4-0001Tg-08 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:26:48 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PLxNz-0007vk-Sa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:26:47 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 155807000089 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:26:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 09242700008E for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:26:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.110.69.31]) by mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 5682B7000089 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:26:35 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20101126122635354.5682B7000089@mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <3A6A1F5FA0224EA0A41EECA310C2E48A@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <439635.1425.qm@web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <439635.1425.qm@web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:26:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 101125-2, 25/11/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01CB8D65.2A031710" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4cefa7cd6f68 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01CB8D65.2A031710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes ok pete I have 2 clamps on the cables , but still 25 w on 80 stops the= data flow ..next is to see if the modems will share the phone= line , and power then on/off to select .. looking on the bottom= , no FCC compliance sticker , so its a typical cheap EU dump fr= om china , the edimax has FCC compliance and looks to be in a metal= box ..=20 G . =20 From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:08 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ? Hi Again Graham and LF Hmmmmm OK looks like you are in better shape than me. A local st= ation who has difficulty with his ADSL has put Ferrite clamp on filter= s on all leads in and out of the Modem including the power supply lead= . He claims (and I have no reason to doubt him) that this has solved= his problems. The modem is the new BT Black Box one. I have one of th= ose although much more reliable and faster it still suffers from my de= scription below. The issue I have appears not to be Modem related but= exchange based. I talk to Larry regularly on 4m so next time, if I remember, I= will get the details of his solution Viz ferrite type and where on th= e lines he is fitting them and forward it to you. It may help.=20 As before good luck with your efforts; what ever success you get= please publish it. Ken M0KHW Luton has an ADSL problem too so several= people would be interested I am sure. 73 es GL petefmt I support www.NotSpotTelecom.Com your community Telco / ISP. --- On Fri, 26/11/10, Graham wrote: From: Graham Subject: Re: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Friday, 26 November, 2010, 0:49 Ok Pete=20 This is the new router , as its in the same place as the ol= d one , with (now) the same filters , the PC is linked with a sho= rt network cable , the rest of the pc's are linked by radio. its= the adsl like thats failing=20 The edimax router was quite robust , never had a drop out= on HF and only over 200 watts , feed , on 500 would stop the li= nk , this one fails with 25 watts on 160 .. the router is off= most of the day and night , only on with the pc , the new = router is faster , from 6 (old) meg to 9 med down and 500k (old= ) to 890 k upload , but if it keeps dropping out with no cure= then its not much use for my usage=20 G, From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:26 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ? Hi Graham Are you sure the problem is the router? 136, 500, 160 and to some extent 80m here are kill= the ADSL. Even at very low powers. If your ADSL is cut during your tr= ansmissions only and resumes at the original speed directly afterwards= it may well be the router being temporarily being knocked out. If how= ever you line stays down for a period of time say several hours then= it is not the router. What you are doing is putting noise (owing to= RF) onto your line which is being picked up at the exchange DSLAM. Th= e exchange equipment (DSLAM) serving your line will reduce data speed= to ensure that a connection of sorts is maintained. This speed can go= down to below 80kb/s from which it will not recover without technical= intervention by BT Open Reach. If it goes down to about 300/500kb/s= it may well recover it's original speed over a period of time BT quot= e 72 hours yes 72 hours (I think this time period is not a technical= issue but one to stall the punters off). On a good day the recovery= period can be speeded up by turning the router off and disconnecting= every thing from the line and waiting. This makes a quiet line for th= e automatic recovery to work.... on a good day!!! If you don't have en= ough life left to wait for BT to physically do some thing then the bes= t thing is to write to BT HQ in London to the their CEO (his name and= location can be found with a bit of research) and tell him what you= think of his outfit. I know from experience he does not like receivin= g this kind of letter. You may have your ISP as Joe Blogs Internet Pro= vider dot Com but in reality it is all provided by BT they own the fin= al mile and the exchange ...... legal niceties to one side it is a fac= t. If you get a good Broad Band data rate of say 4/8m= b/s your transmissions on LF/MF will only slightly degrade your ADSL= but if like me on the end of 7.5km of copper its only 1/1.5mb/s on a= very good day, RF will wipe out your ADSL for a week or more. So with= out a lot of letter writing to BT and angry phone calls your ASDL will= not return to original speed.. To maintain a usable data rate on Broad Band here= I can not use 136 or 500kc/s above a few Milli Watts at TX output abo= ut 1 Watt on 160m 80 about 50Watts and on 60m and above 100Watts (poss= ibly more but not tested yet). Also the longer you stay on the worst= the speed degrades.My guess is with ADSL2 having a much wider bandwid= th the problem for Amateurs will extend further up the spectrum than= shown above. Hope you are not in my situation....... Oh and don= 't believe all this Fibre stuff. Open Reach have told me that one reas= on why Fibre is not being rolled out like the Virgin setup is that the= re are only a few BT people capable of working with Fibre. This is the= reason why BT is Wedded to copper wire. So we locally have Internet= breakdowns owing to Junkies and the like ripping the Copper cables ou= t of BT ducting to pay for drugs... Bedfordshire has had Internet disc= onnections for days owing to this phenomenon. So along with cable thef= t and the lack of trained staff a proper interference free Broad Band= coverage using fibre in this country is looking particularly bleak. Good luck! 73 es GL petefmt I support www.NotSpotTelecom.Com your community Te= lco / ISP. --- On Thu, 25/11/10, Graham wrote: From: Graham Subject: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof= ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 22:06 Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ? Just upgraded to ADSL2 with a orange net-gea= r router/wifi router, now 15 watts on 160 kills the connect= ion =20 router is in the same location as the old edi= max , which kept running with 200 watts on 500 K and 400 on Hf= =20 ? any RF proof ADSL2 on the market > Tnx - G..=20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01CB8D65.2A031710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes ok pete
 
I have  2  clamps on the&nb= sp; cables ,=20 but  still  25  w  on 80  stops the  dat= a =20 flow ..next is to  see  if the  modems  will = share=20 the  phone line , and  power then on/off to  select&nbs= p; ..=20 looking on the  bottom , no  FCC  compliance  stic= ker , so=20 its a typical  cheap  EU dump  from china , the = edimax has=20 FCC  compliance and looks to  be in a metal  box ..
 
G . 

From: M0FMT
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof=20 ?

Hi Again Graham and LF
 
Hmmmmm OK looks like you are in better shape than me. A loc= al station=20 who has difficulty with his ADSL has put Ferrite clamp on filter= s on all=20 leads in and out of the Modem including the power supply lead.= He claims=20 (and I have no reason to doubt him) that this has solved his pro= blems. The=20 modem is the new BT Black Box one. I have one of those although= much more=20 reliable and faster it still suffers from my description below.= The issue=20 I have appears not to be Modem related but exchange based.
 
I talk to Larry regularly on 4m so next time, if I remember= , I will=20 get the details of his solution Viz ferrite type and where on th= e lines he=20 is fitting them and forward it to you. It may help.
As before good luck with your efforts; what ever success yo= u get=20 please publish it. Ken M0KHW Luton has an ADSL = ;problem=20 too so several people would be interested I am sure.

73= es GL=20 petefmt

I support www.NotSpotTelecom.Com your community= Telco /=20 ISP.

--- On Fri, 26/11/10, Graham=20 <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

From:=20 Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: LF: Any= ADSL2=20 BBand router / RF proof ?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= BR>Date:=20 Friday, 26 November, 2010, 0:49

Ok Pete
 
This is the new  router= , as its =20 in the  same place as the old one , with (now) the = same =20 filters , the  PC is  linked with a  short netw= ork =20 cable , the  rest of the  pc's are  linked by= radio. its=20 the  adsl  like thats  failing
 
The edimax   router= was =20 quite  robust , never had a drop  out on HF and only=  =20 over 200  watts  , feed , on 500  would stop&nb= sp;=20 the  link , this one  fails  with  25 = ;=20 watts  on 160  .. the  router  is  of= f =20 most of the  day  and  night  , only = on =20 with the  pc , the  new  router  is faster=   ,=20 from 6 (old)  meg to 9 med  down  and =20 500k (old) to  890 k upload , but  if it = =20 keeps  dropping  out  with no  cure then&n= bsp; its=20 not  much  use for  my usage
 
G,

From: M0FMT=20
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof= =20 ?

Hi Graham
 
Are you sure the problem is the router?
 
136, 500, 160 and to some extent 80m her= e are kill=20 the ADSL. Even at very low powers. If= your ADSL=20 is cut during your transmissions only and resumes= at the=20 original speed directly afterwards it may well be= the router=20 being temporarily being knocked out. If however yo= u line=20 stays down for a period of time say several hours= then it is=20 not the router. What you are doing is putting nois= e (owing=20 to RF) onto your line which is being picked up at= the=20 exchange DSLAM. The exchange equipment (DSLAM) ser= ving your=20 line will reduce data speed to ensure that a conne= ction of=20 sorts is maintained. This speed can go down to bel= ow 80kb/s=20 from which it will not recover without technical= =20 intervention by BT Open Reach. If it goes down to= about=20 300/500kb/s it may well recover it's original spee= d over a=20 period of time BT quote 72 hours yes 72 hours (I= think this=20 time period is not a technical issue but one to st= all the=20 punters off). On a good day the recovery period ca= n be=20 speeded up by turning the router off and disconnec= ting every=20 thing from the line and waiting. This makes a quie= t line for=20 the automatic recovery to work.... on a good day!!= ! If you=20 don't have enough life left to wait for BT to phys= ically do=20 some thing then the best thing is to write to BT= HQ in=20 London to the their CEO (his name and location can= be found=20 with a bit of research) and tell him what you thin= k of his=20 outfit. I know from experience he does not like re= ceiving=20 this kind of letter. You may have your ISP as Joe= Blogs=20 Internet Provider dot Com but in reality it= is all=20 provided by BT they own the final mile and the exc= hange=20 ...... legal niceties to one side it is a fact.
If you get a good Broad Band data= rate of say=20 4/8mb/s your transmissions on LF/MF will only= slightly=20 degrade your ADSL but if like me on the end of 7.5= km of=20 copper its only 1/1.5mb/s on a very good day, RF= will wipe=20 out your ADSL for a week or more. So without= a lot of=20 letter writing to BT and angry phone calls yo= ur ASDL=20 will not return to original speed..
 
To maintain a usable data rate on Broad Band= here I can=20 not use 136 or 500kc/s above a few Milli Watts at= TX output=20 about 1 Watt on 160m 80 about 50Watts and on= 60m and=20 above 100Watts (possibly more but not tested= yet). Also=20 the longer you stay on the worst the speed degrade= s.My guess=20 is with ADSL2 having a much wider bandwidth the pr= oblem for=20 Amateurs will extend further up the spectrum than= shown=20 above.
 
Hope you are not in my situation....... Oh an= d don't=20 believe all this Fibre stuff. Open Reach have= told me=20 that one reason why Fibre is not being rolled out= like the=20 Virgin setup is that there are only a few BT peopl= e capable=20 of working with Fibre. This is the reason why = ;BT is=20 Wedded to copper wire. So we locally have Internet= =20 breakdowns owing to Junkies and the like ripping= the=20 Copper cables out of BT ducting to pay= for=20 drugs... Bedfordshire has had Internet disconnecti= ons for=20 days owing to this phenomenon. So along with cable= theft and=20 the lack of trained staff a proper interferen= ce free=20 Broad Band coverage using fibre in this count= ry is=20 looking particularly bleak.
 
Good luck!

73 es GL= =20 petefmt

I support www.NotSpotTelecom.Com yo= ur=20 community Telco / ISP.

--- On Thu, 25/11= /10,=20 Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>= =20 wrote:
<= BR>From:=20 Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
Subjec= t: LF: Any=20 ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ?
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Thursday,= 25=20 November, 2010, 22:06

Any  ADSL2=   BBand=20 router / RF proof ?
 
Just upgraded= to =20 ADSL2  with a  orange  net-gear&n= bsp; =20 router/wifi  router, now   15&nbs= p;=20 watts  on  160  kills  the&n= bsp;=20 connection 
 
router is in th= e  same=20 location as  the old  edimax , which&n= bsp; kept=20 running  with  200 watts  on 500= K =20 and  400 on Hf
 
? any &nbs= p;RF=20 proof  ADSL2  on the =20 market >
 
Tnx -=20 G.. 







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