Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.222]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v128.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI032-eabf4bbcfc262fb; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 17:41:58 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 41CB1380000B4; Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NzczO-0007d8-48 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 22:40:46 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NzczN-0007cz-Bc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 22:40:45 +0100 Received: from web28509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([87.248.110.188]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NzczN-0006jf-5Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 22:40:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 17702 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Apr 2010 21:40:39 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1270676439; bh=QfVnwnmZHN/I2JnjQ3nS1yQnB72Scr5d0JSYDsK+Czg=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=pIUov3w4KiaVr/iKgGd5dtGbvDLxpa6/1sOz0lOOzFhrRg3m7g6q8/m5uzAmPkcKhVjz4nf3BuMqWbjFE6jIZnbY/m4nsrVnmXCy1SH+0jfVM6mChD4SPvOc8T7p4PFwtzEXH0ev1bnzbB2k1H655v5R2Tqp1Xgyc25sQNVg/yE= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=FvHgPe5XEbz+T2pcu7sRrV/dgonwBnJnO1CNmwuqozkzKr2TqSEglcyIgj7FgKGnHEgi3sB1K68sMRojCzKXA3nmXzjMC4DIonf3lORB5OouOCRGA1BhAqXEZxfbUHTgwJP3MmkSYqwfVbwiom6zeDMyxmfgA9I907ucaBIEh9s=; Message-ID: <387288.17030.qm@web28509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: t0dlH8AVM1mHN4l7K6fo6i7rvUBcienNugW6metaKhkVJCB .31y_SEDbIrKRZhtNJuZl_DjFnBTB5z.tkaO0TVVxQBjR41vwAPDWZKzMA45 96_XeHQHlOugDirm9koOgSyu_cthtZbHJ_2L11SVKqnSxwFkApYelDpK4mNY mv1._Kb2E84zZiYR2nRZ2NDqVFyAjMW.ZE4p7VwK9xsmo1NsVWwdSIkEa3LL A_XPQfAiL2A-- Received: from [82.1.192.95] by web28509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 21:40:39 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/324.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <771416.76510.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 21:40:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Chris Osborn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <771416.76510.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: WSPR without an SSB TRX ? FRM Joe Taylor NPwinner Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-765779987-1270676439=:17030" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d309.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40de4bbcfc2402c9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-765779987-1270676439=:17030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many thanks for all the contributions and suggestions. I have been reading them and trying to understand but I am no 'boffin'. Basically I have a 'decent' PC and appear to be receiving WSPR ok. My rig is home built with a DC receiver and a simple CW type TX with VCO= facility. I am not at home with PIC's or programming and was hoping someone would co= me up with an analogue solution. I know I need to do more 'reading up' but was trying the lazy-man's approa= ch. My initial thoughts were that the PC is giving out a 1500 Hz tone + / - 5= Hz. This is used to generate USB signals from an SSB TX (?) I was hoping to mix these tones with a stable frequency of 1400 Hz (say)= ending up with 100 Hz + / - 5 Hz - thence to an F-V converter - gain / level adjuste= d and thence to the TX VCO input. Ready and awaiting the brickbats. 73 Chris G3XIZ ________________________________ From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Wed, 7 April, 2010 21:41:02 Subject: RE: LF: WSPR without an SSB TRX ? FRM Joe Taylor NPwinner Hi Group=20 =20 I think we have been here before but this is my contribution:- =20 Do the whole thing with software WSPR - VAC - SDR software - Hardware Tayl= oe detector in reverse using a Multiplex chip. This may not be the simplest technique taking the Applications involved i.= e. writing the software. but it already exists so it is just a matter of= integrating them to make a system. The Tayloe detector exists as a kit by= Softrock. You do need however to amplify linearly from the detector outpu= t up to final o/p power level.=20 =20 I use the reverse for WSPR RX on MF and LF. And have played with the TX si= de on 30m at about 1Watt O/P. =20 I can demonstrate this method if you are interested Chris, assuming watchi= ng paint drying (srri I mean WSPR) is the new attraction...hee.=20 =20 73 es GL petefmt t@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >From: M0FMT >Subject: RE: LF: WSPR without an SSB TRX ? FRM Joe Taylor NPwinner >To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >Date: Wednesday, 7 April, 2010, 20:55 > > >Please see below reply from Joe Taylor on this very subject September las= t year, This is the guy who actually wrote this application (you might say= from the Horse Mouth) and he said :- >=20 >On Mon, 7/9/09, Joe Taylor wrote: > >From: Joe Taylor >Subject: Re: WSPR >To: "M0FMT" >Date: Monday, 7 September, 2009, 1:47 PM > > >Hi Peter, >> >>> Does your Software have a data output that gives a hi lo i.e 0,1 on th= e serial port other than the PTT Hi Lo? >> >>No. >> >>> If the software doesn't have this facility why not? >> >>Because there is no standard, nor even anything remotely approaching one= , that would permit hard-keying an oscillator to produce continuous-phase= 4-FSK with offset 1.465 Hz between tones. >> >>The WSPR program, as distributed, is essentially a sound card mode. >> >>With that said, it should be noted that a number of people have built sp= ecial-purpose WSPR transmitters that implement the necessary 4-tone FSK ca= pability in hardware. Their keying is typically controlled from a microp= rocessor, with the encoded message (sequence of tones) stored in ROM. >> -- 73, Joe, K1JT >> >> >>73 es GL petefmt >> >> >>--- On Wed, 7/4/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: >> > >>From: Rik Strobbe >>Subject: RE: LF: WSPR without an SSB TRX ? >>To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" >>Date: Wednesday, 7 April, 2010, 14:23 >> >> >>hello Chris, Jim, group, >> >>an alternative to a transverted would be a divider, let's say from 5MHz= (from a HF tranceiver) to 500kHz. >>That would limit the hardware to some resistors an a single CMOS or TTL= IC. >>I have written a small apllication that generates the appropriate WSPR= audio signal based on the input frequency, output frequency and divider= ratio. >>It worked fine for some local tests, but due to lack of I did no real "D= X tests" so. >>But if anyone wants to try this route I will be happy to send the softwa= re. >> >>73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T >> >>________________________________________ >>Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org] namens >> James Moritz [james.moritz@btopenworld.com] >>Verzonden: woensdag 7 april 2010 15:09 >>Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>Onderwerp: Re: LF: WSPR without an SSB TRX ? >> >>Dear Chris, Andy, LF Group, >> >>What Andy suggests is fine for generating a WSPR signal, but receiving= WSPR >>via the PIC might be a bit more difficult... >> >>But also at http://www.g4jnt.com/LFUpconv.pdf is Andy's simple phasing >>up-converter, which could be used to convert a PC audio output to 500kHz= and >>be used in place of the VCO in your TX. >> >>Trawling through the Forum topics on the WSPRnet.org website (you might= have >>to sign up to see all the material) >> will reveal many designs for homebrew HF >>WSPR beacons that could mostly be adapted to 500k. >> >>Cheers, Jim Moritz >>73 de M0BMU >>=20 >=20 =20 --0-765779987-1270676439=:17030 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Many thanks for all the contributions and suggestions.=
I have been reading them and trying to understand but I am no 'boffin'= .

Basically I have a 'decent' PC and appear to be receiving WSPR ok.
My rig is home bui= lt with a DC receiver and a simple CW type TX with VCO facility.

I= am not at home with PIC's or programming and was hoping someone would com= e
up with an analogue solution.
I know I need to do more 'reading up= ' but was trying the lazy-man's approach.

My initial thoughts were= that the PC is giving out a 1500 Hz tone + / - 5 Hz.
This is used to= generate USB signals from an SSB TX (?)
I was hoping to mix these tone= s with a stable frequency of 1400 Hz (say) ending up
with 100 Hz + / -= 5 Hz - thence to an F-V converter - gain / level adjusted and thence
to the TX VCO inpu= t.

Ready and awaiting the brickbats.

73 Chris G3XIZ

= From: M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.= co.uk>
To: rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org
Sent:= Wed, 7 April, 2010 21:41:02
= Subject: RE: LF: WSPR without an SSB TRX ? FRM Joe Taylor NPwin= ner

=
=
Hi Group 
 
I think we have been here before but this is my contribution:-
 
Do the whole thing with software WSPR - VAC - SDR software - Hardware= Tayloe detector in reverse using a Multiplex chip.
This may not be the simplest technique taking the Applications involv= ed i.e. writing the software. but it already exists so it is just a matter= of integrating them to make a system. The Tayloe detector exists as a kit= by Softrock. You do need however to amplify linearly from the detect= or output up to final o/p power level.
 
I use the reverse for WSPR RX on MF and LF. And have played with the= TX side on 30m at about 1Watt O/P.
 
I can demonstrate this method if you are interested Chris, assuming&n= bsp;watching paint drying (srri I mean WSPR) is the new attraction...= hee. 
 
73 es GL petefmt



t@yahoo.co.uk><= /i> wrote:

From: M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk>
Sub= ject: RE: LF: WSPR without an SSB TRX ? FRM Joe Taylor NPwinner
To: rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Wednesday, 7 April, 2010, 20:55

Please see below reply from Joe Taylor on this very subject September= last year, This is the guy who actually wrote this application (you might= say from the Horse Mouth) and he said :-
 
On Mon, 7/9/09, Joe Taylor <joe@Princeton.EDU> wr= ote:

From: Joe Taylor <joe@Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Re: WSP= R
To: "M0FMT" <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Monday, 7 September,= 2009, 1:47 PM

Hi Peter,

> Does your Software have a= data output that gives a hi lo i.e 0,1 on the serial port other than the= PTT Hi Lo?

No.

> If the software doesn't have this facil= ity why not?

Because there is no standard, nor even anything remote= ly approaching one, that would permit hard-keying an oscillator to produce= continuous-phase 4-FSK with offset 1.465 Hz between tones.

The WSP= R program, as distributed, is essentially a sound card mode.

With= that said, it should be noted that a number of people have built special-= purpose WSPR transmitters that implement the necessary 4-tone FSK capabili= ty in hardware.  Their keying is typically controlled from a  mi= croprocessor, with the encoded message (sequence of tones) stored in ROM.<= br>    -- 73, Joe, K1JT

73 es GL petefmt


--- On Wed, 7/4/10, Rik Strobbe <= ;Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:

From: Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuv= en.be>
Subject: RE: LF: WSPR without an SSB TRX ?
To: "rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Wednesda= y, 7 April, 2010, 14:23

hello Chris, Jim, group,

an alternative to= a transverted would be a divider, let's say from 5MHz (from a HF tranceiv= er) to 500kHz.
That would limit the hardware to some resistors an a sin= gle CMOS or TTL IC.
I have written a small apllication that generates= the appropriate WSPR audio signal based on the input frequency, output fr= equency and divider ratio.
It worked fine for some local tests, but due= to lack of I did no real "DX tests" so.
But if anyone wants to try thi= s route I will be happy to send the software.

73, Rik  ON7YD= - OR7T

________________________________________
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens James Moritz [james.mori= tz@btopenworld.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 7 april 2010 15:09
Aan:= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: WSPR without an SSB TRX ?

Dear Chris= , Andy, LF Group,

What Andy suggests is fine for generating a WSPR= signal, but receiving WSPR
via the PIC might be a bit more difficult..= .

But also at http://www.g4jnt.com/LFUpconv.pdf is Andy'= s simple phasing
up-converter, which could be used to convert a PC audi= o output to 500kHz and
be used in place of the VCO in your TX.

T= rawling through the Forum topics on the WSPRnet.org website (you might hav= e
to sign up to see all the material) will reveal many designs for homebrew HF
WSPR beacons that could mostl= y be adapted to 500k.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU



--0-765779987-1270676439=:17030--