Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AA9B438000232; Sun, 7 Apr 2013 18:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1UOxvn-0005zX-Ek for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:19:23 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1UOxvm-0005zO-58 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:19:22 +0100 Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1UOxvj-0005tK-90 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 23:19:21 +0100 Received: from mtaout-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.65]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id B856F1C0000F8; Sun, 7 Apr 2013 18:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from White (188-195-246-26-dynip.superkabel.de [188.195.246.26]) by mtaout-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 892F4E0000EF; Sun, 7 Apr 2013 18:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3709583A0A2942039831596B8DF86A22@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: , References: <8B8300C3ECFA4E4CA3D2DFB3815E542C@White> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 00:18:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1365373136; bh=bl/zyavWqlc5gNS9EmXJ4tOvityt7+kDG+i8A/48o/E=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=XFqUO1Kun/+VmFOs+INwwNfeVKxDDDC6XgTv0RLKwdlstaNtKqhzFU4vH4igpF/xA mmxnkCFteMUEXaFp4bAIohPPeuA7cGHNzR2jtbgZqu4aMlDLkWJqGlU48ufjXwm9Jw Nj4F5Lcha4GkiJGF4NuNiHnC8tXEu0V0SWqpQHPY= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:396652544:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Peter, LF, daytime VLF propagation normally depends on distance, solar elevation at midpath, and frequency. I noticed that Uwe and Henny are both around 180 km from you. This happens to be roughly the same distance as between Stefan and myself, where we used to find a pronounced midday minimum on 8.97 kHz. Ossi (200 km southeast) and I had the same effect. On the other hand, the ~ 400 km path to OE3GHB and OK2BVG was usually stronger during the day. [...] Content analysis details: (-2.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [64.12.78.142 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -2.4 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 9b3026b1f8b02ffe2f7d65ee41ac1a6b Subject: Re: VLF: Sunday morning test 8270.020 Hz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01CE33EE.A3DFF6C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : mx.aol.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d55161f11f396a X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CE33EE.A3DFF6C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter, LF, daytime VLF propagation normally depends on distance, solar elevation at = midpath, and frequency. I noticed that Uwe and Henny are both around 180 = km from you. This happens to be roughly the same distance as between = Stefan and myself, where we used to find a pronounced midday minimum on = 8.97 kHz. Ossi (200 km southeast) and I had the same effect. On the = other hand, the ~ 400 km path to OE3GHB and OK2BVG was usually stronger = during the day. The distance between Appingedam and Nuernberg is 525 km, and I'm really = not sure if there would be margin for a significant nighttime = enhancement between us. Keep in mind that Uwe is not only much closer to = you, but his ERP is probably an order of magnitude larger than mine. I have uploaded some screenshots from today to = http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/8k27 . Paul's spectrogram clearly shows = that my frequency was below nominal between 10 and 11 UT. This is = corroberated by the Loran moire pattern, and also by a trace which = happened to be created by harmonic mixing in the high resolution = Opera-deep-search spectrogram. To trace down the problem I plotted the = samplerate deviation history from the VLF transmit samplerate detector. = It was tracking DHO 23.4 kHz with SpecLab's default settings (10 s = update cycle which is actually 1 / 0.072 Hz, 1 ppm maximum deviation). = The samplerate was generally very close, but there appeared a number of = discrete +- 0.76 ppm excursions, possibly due to discontinuities in the = ADC data stream. After 9:50 these spikes became much more frequent and = apparently pulled up the average samplerate measurement result, = producing a -0.3 mHz error in the transmit frequency. Around 11 UT I = noticed that something was wrong, and increased the measurement interval = setting to 20s (1 / 0.036 Hz), which smoothed the data and apparently = eliminated the spikes. I also reduced the confidence interval to +-0.1 = ppm. Thereafter, the rest of the transmission from 11 to 13:45 was = flawless. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM in JN59NJ) From: PA1SDB, Peter=20 Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 8:19 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: VLF: Sunday morning test 8270.020 Hz Hi Markus, Unfortunately you where already QRT befor the propagation got better. = You'r right, perhaps propagation to your direction is differend in = relation between Uwe and my QTH. If you take a look (in my grabber) at DJ8WX his signal and you's, there = is not much difference. Uwe is already running for such a long time, he leaves a impressive = trace, but between 8 and 13 is his signal also weak at my QTH. Perhaps it is possible for you to switch on a few hour between sunset = and sunrise ! Best 73's, Peter. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 12:35 PM Subject: Re: VLF: Sunday morning test 8270.020 Hz Peter, yes I was also wondering whether it was really me but now it's sure. I = think I did have some samplerate tracking issues around 11 UT, but it = looks good again now. Interestingly but perhaps unrelated, DHO went off = air for a minute at 11:18. =20 In the past we have observed that the diurnal propagatipon pattern = depends on the phase between groundwave and ionospheric components, and = thus on the distance between TX and RX. So it may well be different = between you and Uwe, versus you and myself. Unfortunately I won't be = able to transmit contiuously throughout day and night, and will have to = go off air around 13 UT today. Best 73, and thanks again, Markus (DF6NM) From: PA1SDB, Peter=20 Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 2:13 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: VLF: Sunday morning test 8270.020 Hz Hello Markus, VLF At first I was quite sure, but later in the morning I started to doubt = whether I did receive DF6NM. Meanwhile, in the afternoon I really see the trail of DF6NM appear in = the spectrogram. As you can see in the traces of DJ8WX (in my grabber) the propagation is = not good during daylight between us. I hope you are able to stay on air for a while. 73s Peter www.qsl.net/pa1sdb ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CE33EE.A3DFF6C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Peter,=20 LF,
 
daytime VLF propagation normally=20 depends on distance, solar elevation at midpath, and = frequency. I=20 noticed that Uwe and Henny are both around 180 km from you. This  = happens=20 to be roughly the same distance as between Stefan and=20 myself, where we used to find a pronounced midday=20 minimum on 8.97 kHz. Ossi (200 km southeast) and I had the = same=20 effect. On the other hand, the ~ 400 km path to OE3GHB and = OK2BVG was=20 usually stronger during the day.
 
The distance between Appingedam and = Nuernberg is=20 525 km, and I'm really not sure = if there=20 would be margin for a significant nighttime = enhancement between=20 us. Keep in mind that Uwe is not only much closer to you, = but his=20 ERP is probably an order of magnitude larger than = mine.
 
I have uploaded some screenshots from = today to http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/8= k27 .=20 Paul's spectrogram clearly shows that = my=20 frequency was below nominal between 10 and 11 UT. This is=20 corroberated by the Loran moire pattern, and also by a = trace which=20 happened to be created by harmonic mixing in the high resolution=20 Opera-deep-search spectrogram. To trace down the problem I plotted the=20 samplerate deviation history from the VLF transmit samplerate detector. = It was=20 tracking DHO 23.4 kHz with SpecLab's default settings (10 s update cycle = which=20 is actually 1 / 0.072 Hz, 1 ppm maximum deviation). The samplerate was = generally=20 very close, but there appeared a number of discrete +- 0.76 = ppm=20 excursions, possibly due to discontinuities in the ADC data = stream. After=20 9:50 these spikes became much more frequent and apparently pulled up the = average=20 samplerate measurement result, producing a -0.3 mHz error = in the transmit frequency. Around 11 UT I noticed that something = was wrong,=20 and increased the measurement interval setting to 20s (1 / 0.036 Hz), = which=20 smoothed the data and apparently eliminated the spikes. I also reduced=20 the confidence interval to +-0.1 ppm. Thereafter, the rest of the=20 transmission from 11 to 13:45 was flawless.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM in JN59NJ)
 
From:=20 PA1SDB, = Peter
Sent: Sunday, April 07, = 2013 8:19=20 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: VLF: Sunday = morning test=20 8270.020 Hz

Hi Markus,
Unfortunately you where = already QRT=20 befor the propagation got better. You'r right, perhaps = propagation to=20 your direction is differend in relation between Uwe and my = QTH.
If you take a look (in my grabber) = at DJ8WX=20 his signal and you's, there is not much difference.
Uwe is already running for such a long = time,=20 he leaves a impressive trace, but between 8 and 13 is his signal = also weak=20 at my QTH.
Perhaps it is possible for you to = switch on a=20 few hour between sunset and sunrise !
 
Best 73's, Peter.
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From: Markus = Vester=20
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Sunday, April 07, = 2013 12:35=20 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: = Sunday morning=20 test 8270.020 Hz

Peter,
 
yes I was also wondering = whether it=20 was really me but now it's sure. I think I did have some samplerate = tracking issues around 11 UT, but it looks good again now. Interestingly = but=20 perhaps unrelated, DHO went off air for a minute at=20 11:18.  
 
In the past we have observed = that the=20 diurnal propagatipon pattern depends on the phase between groundwave and = ionospheric components, and thus on the distance between TX and RX. So = it may=20 well be different between you and Uwe, versus you and myself. = Unfortunately I=20 won't be able to transmit contiuously throughout day and night, and=20 will have to go off air around 13 UT today.
 
Best 73, and thanks = again,
 
Markus (DF6NM)
 
Sent: Sunday, = April 07, 2013=20 2:13 PM
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Subject: Re: = VLF: Sunday=20 morning test 8270.020 Hz

Hello Markus,=20 VLF
At first I was quite sure, but later in the morning I started to doubt whether I  did receive DF6NM.
Meanwhile, in the afternoon I really see the trail of DF6NM appear in the spectrogram.
As you can see = in the traces=20 of DJ8WX (in my grabber) the propagation is not good during = daylight=20 between us.
I hope you are = able to stay=20 on air for a while.
 
73s=20 Peter
 
www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CE33EE.A3DFF6C0--