Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dl04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 52F9338000092; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 09:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1T5z3L-00086t-L5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:08:27 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1T5z3K-00086k-Mu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:08:26 +0100 Received: from smtpout2.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.42] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1T5z3I-0002Ib-Ga for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:08:25 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.30.70]) by mwinf5d27 with ME id rp8P1j00C1WmBde03p8PMD; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:08:23 +0200 Message-ID: <37060B46D79F4AC69EEDBDA79B6B00CC@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <06DDBDA2FE814440A956B5C33365FB75@AGB> <503B5C7A.8020106@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <003501cd8452$4ce82780$0501a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <003501cd8452$4ce82780$0501a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:08:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. 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Content preview: Interesting , is Op visible at -40 dB ? , But yes , it was possible to re hash a message if the ltrs/figs shift had been missed , but the signal levels where many dB's higher and once the change to multi tone was implemented , picalo etc , then error rates dropped and link up-times extended [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.42 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: b28d3e72b5adfaf9991664afe0a993a6 Subject: Re: LF: Re: OP missed decodes Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008D_01CD845D.6B47E070" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4ad2503b71894a84 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01CD845D.6B47E070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting , is Op visible at -40 dB ? ,=20 But yes , it was possible to re hash a message if the ltrs/figs = shift had been missed , but the signal levels where many dB's = higher and once the change to multi tone was implemented , picalo = etc , then error rates dropped and link up-times extended =20 You are correct though , OP is a data mode , which by definition = is two state and therefore will have a pass/fail point , the = beacon is reporting 'path quality' by s/n at the Rx ,=20 This applies to any beacon / data system , wspr has a decode fail = point , qrss has a decode fail point sure you can join the = dots up , but if you need to receive the data , then qrss offers = no advantage Q # =3D ? Q 5 =3D good copy , if you don't see = the 5 then what ? guess ?=20 G.. From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 1:48 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: OP missed decodes Stefan es Co It is often the case when Data modes cannot be decoded they are visible = on the waterfall display. It is also a fact that RTTY can easily be = visually read on a waterfall display when it does not decode/print = because of qrn hits or qsb.=20 In the past RTTY fsk marks/spaces were read from undulator tape by a = competent operator who knew the Murray code. This method produced better = results than direct demodulation/printing The preferred method on LF/MF surely is QRSS, DFCW for reliability in = handling very weak signals then CW for the stronger signals and local = working. de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 11:39 AM Subject: LF: OP missed decodes G..,=20 Am 27.08.2012 13:18, schrieb Graham:=20 DK7FC UZ2HZ 2200m OPERA 1789 kms 23:05:38=20 =20 =20 =20 Did the program show that decode on your PC? On my PC the decode did = not appear! It would be a pity if decodes would be lost. I tried to = reach UZ2HZ but thought i wasn't successful. Maybe it was the same with = SM2DJK?=20 Maybe further stations got successful TA decodes but no one knows? = Another disadvantage compared to QRSS/DFCW.. 73, Stefan/DK7FC ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01CD845D.6B47E070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting  , is   Op  visible    = at =20 -40 dB ? ,
 
But  yes  , it was possible to  re hash a = message  if=20 the  ltrs/figs   shift had  been  missed  = , but=20 the  signal levels  where  many dB's   higher = and =20 once  the  change to  multi  tone  was =20 implemented , picalo   etc  , then  error  = rates  dropped  and  link  up-times  = extended =20
 
You are  correct though  , OP  is a  data  = mode  , which by  definition  is  two  = state  and=20 therefore  will  have a  pass/fail  point , = the =20 beacon  is  reporting  'path  quality'   = by s/n at=20 the  Rx  ,
 
This applies to  any  beacon / data  system  ,=20 wspr  has a  decode  fail  point  , qrss =20 has  a  decode  fail  = point    sure=20 you can  join the  dots  up , but  if you  = need  to receive the  data , then  qrss  = offers =20 no  advantage   Q #  =3D ?   Q 5 =3D = good  copy ,=20 if  you don't  see  the  5  then  what ? = guess ?=20
 
G..

Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 1:48 PM
Subject: LF: Re: OP missed decodes

Stefan es Co
It is often the case when Data modes cannot be = decoded=20 they are visible on the waterfall display. It is also a fact that RTTY = can=20 easily be visually read on a waterfall display when it does not = decode/print=20 because of qrn hits or qsb.
In the past RTTY fsk marks/spaces were read = from=20 undulator tape by a competent operator who knew the Murray code. = This=20 method produced better results than direct = demodulation/printing
The preferred method on LF/MF surely is = QRSS,=20 DFCW for reliability in handling very weak signals then CW for the = stronger=20 signals and local working.
de mal/g3kev
  
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stefan = Sch=E4fer
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 = 11:39=20 AM
Subject: LF: OP missed = decodes

G..,

Am 27.08.2012 13:18, schrieb Graham:=20
 
DK7FC UZ2HZ 2200m OPERA 1789 kms 23:05:38


Did = the=20 program show that decode on your PC? On my PC the decode did not = appear! It=20 would be a pity if decodes would be lost. I tried to reach UZ2HZ but = thought i=20 wasn't successful. Maybe it was the same with SM2DJK?
Maybe = further=20 stations got successful TA decodes but no one knows? Another = disadvantage=20 compared to QRSS/DFCW..

73, = Stefan/DK7FC
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