Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.80]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMB064-a77f4c2e36931b; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 14:57:23 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8E48738000095; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 14:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OUlP3-0001cL-Bi for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:55:57 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OUlP2-0001cC-Ka for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:55:56 +0100 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.191]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OUlP1-0003L4-LX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 19:55:56 +0100 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3618.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F35D67000103 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 20:55:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3618.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E728F70000BD for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 20:55:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.24.28]) by mwinf3618.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 2F4137000103 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 20:55:47 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20100702185547193.2F4137000103@mwinf3618.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <32B9C566B4A041B3B74F7BA25848E805@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <000a01cb19f4$709293c0$0202a8c0@laptopcore2> In-Reply-To: <000a01cb19f4$709293c0$0202a8c0@laptopcore2> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:55:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100702-1, 02/07/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS MF-1 beacon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01CB1A20.8FF93260" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80,HTML_FONTCOLOR_RED, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME,WEIRD_PORT autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40504c2e369115d6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CB1A20.8FF93260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Eddie, I was setting up to see if i could monitor Willem. could see him= via twente but he was running mf-7 , which is not as sensitive as= mf-1 , that was a test at 100 watts , decoded that via twente= at mf-1 , no decode at mf-7 , may try later on , see if can work= x-band to 80=20 G ,, From: g3zjo=20 Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 3:39 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS MF-1 beacon I am monitoring 502kHz ROS MF1 Eddie G3ZJO -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham Sent: 02 July 2010 13:33 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS MF-1 beacon Reply from R . MF1 ROS is 0.837053 symbols/second. If you can decode at -33dB (presu= mably in the reference bandwidth of 2.5kHz) that's +1.7 dB S/N in a= symbol bandwidth, that in the case of 16FSK with Viterbi Decoder is= possible. ROS calculate S/N for 100Hz, after tx , show's S/N for an equivalent= system of 2500Hz >> CANCEL> -36 dB << (end of rx text string) From: Andy Talbot=20 Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 8:01 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS MF-1 beacon A thought. =20 MF1 ROS is one symbol per second isn't it. If you can decode at -33dB= (presumably in the reference bandwidth of 2.5kHz) that's -1dB S/N in= a symbol bandwidth. Which I'm not sure I can believe. FSK with go= od Feed Solomon, or whatever, FEC needs 2 - 3dB S/N.=20 Is the S/N calculation being a bit optimistic? The calculation in WSJ= T / WSPR gives an artificially high S/N value if the input bandwidth= is restricted below a complete 2.5kHz's worth, and if impulsive noise= is present. So could ROS be suffering some similar effect? Andy www.g4jnt.com On 1 July 2010 23:47, Graham wrote: Gary,=20 Just a couple of db's short of a decode via the web , -36 is go= ing some though=20 http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/ RX1:=20 21:55 @ 13.8 Hz: *[:]V-KFY:32DM5#("")EM3H#/F[_ -36 dB=20 G ..=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:35 PM To: LF Group (RSGB)=20 Subject: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS MF-1 beacon Hi LF,=20 My ROS MF-1 beacon is transmitting now with 3 minute timer. Frequency is 137.500 kHz (dial 136.500 kHz USB), reports & QSO attempt= s very welcome. ERP about 50mW. 73 Gary - G4WGT - IO83QO ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CB1A20.8FF93260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tnx Eddie,
 
I was setting up  to  see= if i=20 could  monitor  Willem. could  see  him via twente= but =20 he was running  mf-7 , which is not as sensitive as mf-1 , that&n= bsp; was=20 a  test  at 100  watts  , decoded that  via= twente at=20 mf-1 , no decode at  mf-7  , may try later  on , see&nb= sp; if=20 can  work  x-band to  80
 
G ,,

From: g3zjo
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS MF-1 beacon

I am moni= toring 502kHz=20 ROS MF1

 

Eddie=20 G3ZJO

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:= owner-rsgb_lf= _group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham
Sent: 02 July 2010 13:33
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS MF= -1=20 beacon

&nb= sp;

Reply&n= bsp; from R=20 .

&= nbsp;

MF1 ROS is 0.837053 sym= bols/second.  If you=20 can decode at -33dB (presumably in the reference bandwidth of 2.5kHz)&= nbsp;=20 that's +1.7 dB S/N in a symbol bandwidth, that in the case of=20 16FSK wi= th Viterbi=20 Decoder is possible.

ROS calculate S/N= for=20 100Hz, after tx ,  show's  S/N for an equivalent system of= =20 2500Hz   >>  CANCEL>= -36 dB << =20 (end of rx text string)

&= nbsp;

 

From: Andy= Talbot

Sent: Friday,=20 July 02, 2010 8:01 AM

Subject: Re: LF:=20 137.500 kHz ROS MF-1 beacon

&= nbsp;

A thought. = =20

MF1 ROS is one sy= mbol per=20 second isn't it.  If you can decode at -33dB (presumably in the= reference=20 bandwidth of 2.5kHz)  that's -1dB S/N in a symbol bandwidth. = ; =20 Which I'm not sure I can believe.   FSK with good Feed Solom= on, or=20 whatever, FEC  needs 2 - 3dB S/N.

&= nbsp;

Is the S/N calcul= ation=20 being a bit optimistic?  The calculation in WSJT / WSPR gives an= =20 artificially high S/N value if the input bandwidth is restricted below= a=20 complete 2.5kHz's worth, and if impulsive noise is present.  So= could ROS=20 be suffering some similar effect?

On 1 July 2010 23= :47,=20 Graham <g8fzk@g8f= zk.fsnet.co.uk>=20 wrote:

&= nbsp;

Gary,=

&= nbsp;

Just a&= nbsp; couple of=20 db's   short  of a  decode  via the  web= , -36 is=20 going some though

&= nbsp;

RX1:=20

21:55= @ 13.8 Hz: *= [:]V-KFY:32DM5#("")EM3H#/F[_=20 <CANCEL> -36 dB

G ..

&= nbsp;

 

From: Gary - G4WGT=20

Sent: Thursday,=20 July 01, 2010 6:35 PM

Subject: LF:=20 137.500 kHz ROS MF-1 beacon

&= nbsp;

Hi LF,

&= nbsp;

My ROS MF-1 beaco= n is=20 transmitting now with 3 minute timer.

&= nbsp;

Frequency is 137.= 500 kHz=20 (dial 136.500 kHz USB), reports & QSO attempts very=20 welcome.

&= nbsp;

ERP about=20 50mW.

&= nbsp;

73<= /P>

&= nbsp;

Gary - G4WGT -=20 IO83QO

 





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