Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tA7D59sb006702 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2015 14:05:09 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Zv38K-000614-Gg for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2015 13:02:16 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Zv38J-00060n-Om for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2015 13:02:15 +0000 Received: from rgout05.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk ([65.20.0.182]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1Zv374-0002fD-RS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2015 13:02:14 +0000 X-OWM-Source-IP: 86.136.57.57 (GB) X-OWM-Env-Sender: alan.melia@btinternet.com X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A090203.563DF5FD.000C,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=39/50,refid=2.7.2:2015.11.7.114215:17:39.532,ip=86.136.57.57,rules=__HAS_MSGID, __SANE_MSGID, MSGID_32HEX_LC, INVALID_MSGID_NO_FQDN, __MSGID_32HEX, __HAS_FROM, __PHISH_FROM2, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL_FROM, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY, __CTYPE_MULTIPART, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, __FRAUD_BODY_WEBMAIL, __URI_NO_WWW, __URI_NO_PATH, __C230066_P2, __CP_NOT_1, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, __INT_PROD_LOC, SUPERLONG_LINE, __HTML_AHREF_TAG, __HAS_HTML, HTML_NO_HTTP, BODY_SIZE_10000_PLUS, BODYTEXTH_SIZE_10000_LESS, __MIME_HTML, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML, RDNS_GENERIC_POOLED, __URI_NS, SXL_IP_DYNAMIC[57.57.136.86.fur], RDNS_SUSP_GENERIC, __PHISH_FROM, __OUTLOOK_MUA, RDNS_SUSP, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK, NO_URI_HTTPS X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Received: from gnat (86.136.57.57) by rgout05.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (8.6.122.06) (authenticated as alan.melia@btinternet.com) id 563A0A1000575CF2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 7 Nov 2015 13:00:36 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1446901250; bh=xI7gWdm3+OwUe6iOuLiiXFveoEaR04cGsp6uLbUpTkU=; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:X-Mailer; b=RamN9l3laQmKBO8jFB7n6ib5y4r86cvWCGGp+Kf6q5nSr5FR8FFGeONMKs0Pjh4+hyaqYLb1FpgjSyAGQqeF+J3d9Z7US0xBnQc+5jgENFFFwDZIRbfymXFak6YO02ck3ErquOwo6IzWRPcE9U082TQ6CSIjb8Z/mVkd2H3OZGg= Message-ID: <322423EF45E947D494E5E9AD6F55459E@gnat> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B27E40E@servigilant.vigilant.local>,<563BCC92.7030402@posteo.de> <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B27F658@servigilant.vigilant.local> <563BEC40.20409@posteo.de> <1E47139B8DD7469588956FCFFA3EBD9C@gnat> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 12:54:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Scan-Signature: 18c34d0630bd8a741008f8972a39cc18 Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX WSPR again Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01D1195B.7E525BA0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4869 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01D1195B.7E525BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Markus, I may have has my tongue in my cheek about the "big beach" = called the Sahara :-)) I noticed difficult to understand variations on the signal from Marathon = in 2002, which crosses the Alps on its way to the UK. I suspended trying = to use Marathon as a beacon, though Brian in Porto got much more = sensible data on a mainly water path. There was some geomagnetic activity activity early this morning (0300 to = 0900) TheDst has dropped to -130nT by 12:00 but any effect may take some = time to diffuse to equatorial path and the precipitation may disperse = before it has too significant an impact on signals there. Thepredition = for the CME was later today. I am not sure whether it arrived sooner = than expected or whether we will get a double hit. Although it was not = Earth directed it seemed to sweep up plasma from a significant Coronal = Hole flow and this looked, from the NOAA SEC animation, to enhance the = effect to Earth even though it was not a "direct hit" Tonights results could be very interesting.....we have never had a trans = equatorial path to investigate before. Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: DELMARLE Michel=20 Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 11:01 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX WSPR again Here's another plot for FR5ZX decodes showing Thursday / Friday night. = Nice to see even more stations making it to La Reunion! Generally I would agree with Alan that low-angle ground reflections = from a planar dielectric surface (sand) may be nearly as effective as = from a conductor (salt water), and that on the other hand scattering off = mountain ranges may significantly hinder or interrupt long-range = propagation. However the Sahara is not really all flat... Yesterday night propagation appeared to be weaker and short-lived - = only 18 spots alltogether and the last one at 22:46 UT. Coronal mass = ejection arrived on earth? All the best, Markus From: Alan Melia=20 Sent: Friday, November 06, 2015 1:54 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX WSPR again Hi Stefan yes it's interesting because there has be steady low level=20 geomagnetic storms since the 3rd at Kp=3D5. I am wondering if what we = are=20 seeing is more a feature of a predominantly N<>S path rather than the = more=20 usual long, predominantly E<>W paths to Joe and Alex. I suppose = crossing the=20 Equator there is much less effect from precipitated electrons which = happens=20 mainly at, or near, the poles. An interesting way of analysing the 9000km path would be to cut it = into 4=20 hops and see where the ground interaction takes place. (it is roughly = 2000=20 to 2500km per hop) I do wonder if the desert (quartz) might have a = similar=20 effect to sea. (the desert sand was given as one reason why the = "Poynting=20 vector" aerials seemed to give good results in Egypt) The signal doesnt really "bounce" if you draw the profile accurately = it=20 approached the ground at near zero degrees. I have a feeling that the = long=20 distance signal may be more affected by the ground "roughness"=20 (scattering??) at mid-path than the resistivity/permiability. In fact = most=20 of the signal just skims the ground. There is no doubt the sea effect = is=20 certainly clear at the path ends. There was some suggestion of = preferential=20 N<>S paths between ZL and Asia, but strangely it was never as good to=20 W.Coast/Alaska or Honalulu. What is surprising is that there are not similar paths to South = America from=20 Europe. However the question is then " is anyone monitoring". Likewise = to=20 RSA but I believe LF is not popular with amateurs in ZS. It will be interesting to see what happens when the CME arrives = overnight on=20 the 7th. It may not affect the path to La Reunion until the night of = 7/8. I noticed a set of regular 4min interval decodes then a 16 min blank = which I=20 presume must have been a fade. Also your best reception was soon after = the=20 fade I think?? Fascinating stuff this LF/MF propagation :-)) Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "DK7FC" To: Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:54 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX WSPR again > Attached is a picture showing the path for EA5DOM. So far i thought = that > the red sea is supporting the path for stations from DL, PA, SV and = I, > allowing one or 2 hops on sea water. But now Luis' path is directly = over > Africa. > Hmmmm, Alan? Any thoughts? :-) > > 73, Stefan > > Am 05.11.2015 23:59, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: >> Wops !! >> >> 2015-11-05 22:48 EA5DOM 0.475790 -20 0 IM98wn 0.05 FR5ZX LG78pu = 8796 >> >> New coil ! Antenna is finally on resonance ..... and seems to work = ! ;-) >> >> 73 de Luis >> EA5DOM >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01D1195B.7E525BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Markus, I may have has my tongue in = my cheek=20 about the "big beach" called the Sahara
:-))
I noticed difficult to understand = variations on the=20 signal from Marathon in 2002, which crosses the Alps on its way to the = UK. I=20 suspended trying to use Marathon as a beacon, though Brian in Porto got = much=20 more sensible data on a mainly water path.
 
There was some geomagnetic activity = activity early=20 this morning (0300 to 0900) TheDst has dropped to -130nT by 12:00 but = any effect=20 may take some time to diffuse to equatorial path and the precipitation = may=20 disperse before it has too significant an impact on signals there. = Thepredition=20 for the CME was later today. I am not sure whether it arrived sooner = than=20 expected or whether we will get a double hit. Although it was not Earth = directed=20 it seemed to sweep up plasma from a significant Coronal Hole flow and = this=20 looked, from the NOAA SEC animation, to enhance the effect to Earth even = though=20 it was not a "direct hit"
 
Tonights results could be very = interesting.....we=20 have never had a trans equatorial path to investigate = before.
 
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
Sent: Saturday, November 07, = 2015 11:01=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX WSPR = again

Here's another plot for = FR5ZX decodes=20 showing Thursday / Friday night. Nice to see even more stations making = it to=20 La Reunion!
 
Generally I would agree with Alan = that low-angle=20 ground reflections from a planar dielectric surface (sand) may be = nearly=20 as effective as from a conductor (salt water), and that on the other = hand=20 scattering off mountain ranges may significantly hinder or interrupt=20 long-range propagation. However the Sahara is not really all=20 flat...
 
Yesterday night propagation appeared = to be weaker=20 and short-lived - only 18 spots alltogether and the last one at 22:46 = UT.=20 Coronal mass ejection arrived on earth?
 
All the best,
Markus

From: Alan Melia
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2015 1:54 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX WSPR again

Hi Stefan yes it's interesting because = there has=20 be steady low level
geomagnetic storms since the 3rd  at = Kp=3D5. I am=20 wondering if what we are
seeing is more a feature of a = predominantly=20 N<>S path rather than the more
usual long, predominantly = E<>W=20 paths to Joe and Alex. I suppose crossing the
Equator there is = much less=20 effect from precipitated electrons which happens
mainly at, or = near, the=20 poles.

An interesting way of analysing the 9000km path would be = to cut=20 it into 4
hops and see where the ground interaction takes place. = (it is=20 roughly 2000
to 2500km per hop) I do wonder if the desert (quartz) = might=20 have a similar
effect to sea. (the desert sand was given as one = reason why=20 the "Poynting
vector" aerials seemed to give good results in=20 Egypt)

The signal doesnt really "bounce" if you draw the = profile=20 accurately it
approached the ground at near zero degrees. I have a = feeling=20 that the long
distance signal may be more affected by the ground=20 "roughness"
(scattering??) at mid-path than the = resistivity/permiability.=20 In fact most
of the signal just skims the ground. There is no = doubt the=20 sea effect is
certainly clear at the path ends.  There was = some=20 suggestion of preferential
N<>S paths between ZL and Asia, = but=20 strangely it was never as good to
W.Coast/Alaska  or=20 Honalulu.

What is surprising is that there are not similar = paths to=20 South America from
Europe. However the question is then " is = anyone=20 monitoring". Likewise to
RSA but I believe LF is not popular with = amateurs=20 in ZS.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the CME = arrives=20 overnight on
the 7th. It may not affect the path to La Reunion = until the=20 night of 7/8.

I noticed a set of regular 4min interval decodes = then a=20 16 min blank which I
presume must have been a fade. Also your best = reception was soon after the
fade I think??

Fascinating = stuff this=20 LF/MF propagation :-))

Alan
G3NYK



----- = Original=20 Message -----
From: "DK7FC" <selberdenken@posteo.de>
= To:=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= >
Sent:=20 Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX = WSPR=20 again


> Attached is a picture showing the path for = EA5DOM. So=20 far i thought that
> the red sea is supporting the path for = stations=20 from DL, PA, SV and I,
> allowing one or 2 hops on sea water. = But now=20 Luis' path is directly over
> Africa.
> Hmmmm, Alan? Any = thoughts?=20 :-)
>
> 73, Stefan
>
> Am 05.11.2015 23:59, = schrieb=20 VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
>> Wops=20 !!
>>
>>   2015-11-05 22:48 EA5DOM = 0.475790 -20 0=20 IM98wn 0.05 FR5ZX LG78pu 8796
>>
>> New coil ! = Antenna is=20 finally on resonance  ..... and seems to work !=20 ;-)
>>
>> 73 de Luis
>> EA5DOM
>=20


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