Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12654 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2004 16:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ptb-spamcore02.plus.net) (192.168.71.3) by ptb-mailstore02.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2004 16:35:00 -0000 Received: from mailnull by ptb-spamcore02.plus.net with spamcore-l-b (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1CY5Y1-000IyG-QB for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:35:51 +0000 Received: from [192.168.67.1] (helo=ptb-mxcore01.plus.net) by ptb-spamcore02.plus.net with esmtp (Exim 4.32; FreeBSD) id 1CY5Y1-000IyD-NT for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:35:45 +0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.20]) by ptb-mxcore01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1CY5XC-00099e-Ia for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:34:54 +0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1CY5Wg-0000RD-8x for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:34:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.30] (helo=relay.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1CY5Wf-0000R4-T6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:34:21 +0000 Received: from mail.nrtco.net ([216.168.96.52]) by relay.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CY5Wc-0007t6-G7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:34:21 +0000 Received: from nocturna-y1zrar (nrtcorback-216-168-120-120.nrtco.net [216.168.120.120]) by mail.nrtco.net (8.12.10/8.12.1) with SMTP id iARGcUHC025702 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:38:30 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20041127113429.00c39b50@magma.ca> X-Sender: ve2iq@magma.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:34:29 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: Bill de Carle In-Reply-To: <41A89AAD.2080804@usa.net> References: <000b01c4d3fc$f0716880$6507a8c0@Main> <000b01c4d3fc$f0716880$6507a8c0@Main> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-SPF-Result: relay.thorcom.net: 216.168.96.52 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of magma.ca X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=no, Subject: Re: LF: Re: MSK etc and stability Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet SpamCORE (v3.00) Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit At 04:18 PM 11/27/2004 +0100, Alberto wrote: >[..] I was thinking of a scheme more or less like the >following, for the >137 kHz scenario, for demodulating a BPSK transmission. [..] >A PC program can now mix down, with a tunable NCO, that range to zero IF >and apply a complex FIR lowpass with a BW of just a few Hz. What do you >have now ? A rotating vector (ideally it should not rotate, if the zero >IF is actually zero), whose phase is instantaneously defined by >atan(Q/I). If you do a long term averaging of the speed of variation of >this phase, you can then more or less easily measure if the instantaneous >phase is leading or lagging this averaged value. >This is just the recovered 0 or 1 bit of the phase modulation applied >to your carrier. [..] >As said, just a wild idea. If there are valid reasons to trash it, >please speak up, so I won't >waste any more time thinking at it. Thanks. This is basically how the "PSKL" mode in COHERENT/AFRICA was done. Everything works nicely when the SNR is good, but one problem is that it is very difficult to accurately measure phase when the signal is extremely weak. I found that in place of long term averaging it is better to fit a linear regression line (assuming the speed of the variation is constant over the averaging period) - the slope is what we want and it does a better job of taking out the effects of jitter - but still when the signal is way down in noise, even the best guess can be off by a mile. You can't afford to assume the parameter stays constant for a long time because the filter wouldn't track. And for a sufficiently short measurement time to be useful in BPSK decoding you generally can't measure accurately enough to be more useful than just going to differential encoding then comparing two consecutive measured phases to see if they differ by more than +/- 90 degrees. Bill VE2IQ