Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23056 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 12:30:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 12:30:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hAZg-00027W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:24:20 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from posti.saunalahti.fi ([195.74.0.45] helo=vihta.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hAZf-00027Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:24:19 +0100 Received: from default (DLXXII.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.80.72]) by vihta.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA08399 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:16:22 +0300 (EET DST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000417152431.00826450@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:24:31 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Radiated powers ... In-reply-to: <200004170308_MC2-A173-7362@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For those interested on the history of LF/MF coverage planning: (An excerpt from a report of EBU Working Party A, Hamburg, April 1971) DEFINITIONS OF RADIATED TRANSMITTER POWER -- (5 proposals received) -- a) Effective radiated power (ERP) - by ORF (J. Burgstaller) It is proposed to apply the same definition as the one used in the VHF and UHF bands. b) Equivalent monopole radiated power (EMRP) - BBC (Dr Phillips) This definition is based on a short vertical reference aerial, giving horizontally the same radiation as the actual aerial, both being assumed to be located on a perfectly-conducting horizontal plane. The advantage would be that in the present CCIR Report, the curves would correspond to 1 kW EMRP (!!!) c) Equivalent power at a distance of 10 km (EP) - RTE (Mr Curley) For MF propagation it would be reasonable to consider the surrounding countryside up to a radial distance of approximately 10 km as being part of the aerial system. A practical suggestion to define the radiated power may be as follows: the equivalent power required to produce the same field strength at 10 km when applied at the base of a vertical aerial of one quarter wavelength equipped with a perfect earth system and moderate conductivity (3*10E-3 mhos/m) around that aerial up to a distance of 10 km. d) Cymomotive force (CMF) - ORTF The cymomotive force is defined at any point in the space around an aerial, for which the fed-in energy is known, related to the distance of that point from the aerial. The gain of the aerial must be considered when the field strength is calculated at that point. The product of the field strength and the distance is defined as the cymomotive force. e) Operative radiated power (ORP) - ARD/ZDF This term is defined as follows: "The power supplied to the antenna multiplied by the gain of the antenna in a given direction when the reference antenna, placed on the surface of a perfectly conducting plane earth, produces an unattenuated field strength of 300 mV/m at a distance of 1 km at any angle of departure above the plane earth. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Note by Vaino: ERP also was there but it was not supported... At 03:08 17.4.2000 -0400, Geri wrote:---------------------- >Hello Dick, > >great that you also made your field strength measurements. > >>we find at Puckeridge 45W was fed to the aerial on 136kHz and 7.5W on >73kHz. > >The difference between your findings and mine (16 W ERP on 73 kHz, measured >at nearly twice the distance using a very basic and rough "rule of thump" >measurment) is only about 3 dB. > >Dick, PA0SE wrote: > >>This is EIRP and not ERP of course. > >Well, kind of. What I thought was a silly question seems seems always to >have been a point of discussion betwen the experts. Let me quote from an >e-mail that Vaino, OH2LX has send me as an answer to my question: > >>We have not been using the "paper curves" for some time. >>Many computer GW programmes have been developed but none of >>them seem to serve us the way we all should expect them to do. >> >>Hardly no one was serious with either ERP or EIRP when the >>"Conditions of validity" for the family of curves were being >>formulated. There were some 6 or 7 candidates icluding CMF, >>EMRP and some others. EIRP is rather "fuzzy" and ERP refers >>to a dipole, so the choice was to be called EMRP: >> >>- The radiating element is a short vertical monopole >> (The equivalent dipole moment is 5(lambda)/2(pii)). Assuming >> such a vertical antenna to be on the surface of a perfectly >> conducting plane earth and excited so as to radiate 1 kW, >> the fiels at a distance of 1 km would be 300 mV/m; >> this corresponds to a cymomotive force of 300 V. >> >>Personally I don't know anyone who wants to make practical >>field work or reporting in terms of CMF. As you know from >>practice, the problems are hiding elsewhere. Usually it is >>most useful to discover a lump sigma value for a ground path >>with potential adjustments according to seasonal etc conditions. >>Without reliable looking long term measurements with supporting >>occasional flight measurements there would be no brain twisting, >>at least we could not explain all what happens on measurements. > >Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi