Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.79]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC062-a9744c1f90cdb8; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:18:21 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4D33B380000A0; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OQjgg-00008k-I2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:17:30 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OQjgf-00008a-Or for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:17:29 +0100 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.128]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OQjgc-0007sy-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:17:29 +0100 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3409.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3BDB61C01C21 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:17:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3409.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 262F61C01C37 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:17:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.110.83.178]) by mwinf3409.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 8D4961C01C21 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:17:19 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20100621161719578.8D4961C01C21@mwinf3409.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <2FE66D7AB59E43F3BDA1288BA86CC9D1@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <002401cb1076$f4620140$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <005b01cb109e$58400960$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <001501cb1155$38cbbe00$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> In-Reply-To: <001501cb1155$38cbbe00$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:17:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100621-0, 21/06/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01CB1165.9A894E90" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404f4c1f90c90dab X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01CB1165.9A894E90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Scotch Mist . no just the fog of progress ... besides, the freque= ncy slot is reserved for data only ,=20 So there is no possibility of qrm , unless the reference is to ke= y clicks ? From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:20 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon So this mode is invisible, in that case I and other CW operators will= not know it is there. No evasive action required to avoid QRM to it= or the reverse.=20 Wonderful news What I saw and heard the other night was Scotch Mist g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:46 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon ''''for instance the French stn F5WK cannot hear you''''' Well , yes , that's the point of it all , no noise, no trace= just 100% pure digital data rolling over the land , like the un-= seen fog of progress =20 IARU - R-1 plan .. 137.4 to 137.6 digital modes , with the note tha= t CW is 'not allowed' =20 I think the test and the frequency went fully to 'to plan' and= paves the way for a magnitudinal increase in data use on 137 , to= date limited by bandwidth to psk31 , ros-mf by design occupying= on 50% of the allowable space on 137 and 99% of the 100Hz allo= cations for 500K. and passing via a non linear system , how lon= g will it before the first live data qso over the pond ? G .=20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:30 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Gary There are too many variables with these experiments for instance the= French stn F5WK cannot hear you but you are S5 solid on 137.5 here at= my qth The RX stations antennas need to be analyised otherwise it misrepres= ents what you are doing. Can u pse use frequencies below 136.5 kcs otherwise there is a probl= em with EU and Russian stations using the area 137 - 137.778 kcs for= QRS acty. also this is the DX window area for the USA and others. 73 de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Hi Mal,=20 Thank you for your report & comments. The mail you replied to give= s all the details of equipment in use for the test beacon. I would like to be able to have a QSO using morse but I have to ad= mit to a complete loss of confidence as I have not used the mode for= 25 years which was one year after I passed the test in 1984. Looking= back, letting it go was a silly thing to do. I do enjoy testing out these "weak signal" modes & in the report= I received from Michel F5WK last night he wrote that he could not hea= r the signal or even see it on SpecLab but he got a complete decode.= So as a weak signal communication mode it works. Just to elaborate on the antenna, it is a 12 metre base loaded ver= tical with a small elevated inductor of 500uH at about 9 metres & a 1= x 3 metre capacity top with a 120uH spiral inductor. In my small gard= en I have no space to go outwards only upwards. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 20 June 2010 13:48, mal hamilton wrote: Gary If that was you last nite on 137.5 kcs you were strong enough= for cw or qrs3 no need to struggle with decodes from elswhere. also I had a qso with G3XIZ this morning on 137.0 kcs and got 59= 9, he was 569. Not sure what antenna u were using but it was putting out a fair= signal to this qth. Your radiators are probably acting as an antenna= above earth. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: LF Group (RSGB)=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:07 PM Subject: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Hi LF, Having successfully bench & on-air tested a x2 harmonic amplif= ier method of driving my G0MRF Class D LF transmitter, I ran a beacon= last night (Saturday 19th) on 137.500 kHz. An extract from my previous e-mail description is shown at the= end. Using the equipment & method described below, the ERP from my= 12 metre vertical antenna was around 150mW. The mode was ROS MF-1, 10= 0 Hz bandwidth. I received the following report from Michel, F5WK in JN18HP,= a distance of 410 miles (661 kilometres) in daylight. >> Not even a faint trace on a QRSS3 spectrum but: >> RX1: 19:23 @ 5.9 Hz: 9 -37 dB >> RX1: 19:28 @ 5.4 Hz: O4WGT -34 dB >> RX1: 19:33 @ 5.4 Hz: G4WGT -31 dB The x2 harmonic low level amplifier is a simple way of driving= a Class D type of transmitter which employs a divide by 2 drive chain= . My limitation with multi tone drive is that my DDS VFO will only pro= duce 2 frequencies ie. the main frequency & a CW/Rx offset which has= previously limited me to 2 tones as with RTTY & DFCW modes. Please bear in mind that it will not be suitable for modes lik= e PSK were tones are transmitted simultaneously. At the moment the 2 small PCB's are precariously lying on the= desk, when I have cased them I will publish the circuit & pictures. 73 Gary - G4WGT. *********************************************** After a few days experimenting & bench testing a method of= driving my G0MRF Class D Tx on the 137.000 kHz band from my linear tran= sverter I finally constructed a harmonic amplifier producing a 274.000 kHz sig= nal from 137.000 kHz input. An "on-air" trial was conducted resulting in a QS= O with Graham G0NBD on 137.000 kHz using ROS data mode software. =20 My thanks to Graham for his ideas & tests. =20 The mode used was ROS MF-7. The equipment used for the QSO= was as follows. Kenwood TS-440 to my LF-MF linear transverter produ= cing the 137.000 kHz signal, followed by a tuned harmonic circuit &= buffer amplifier whose output was 274.000 kHz therefore at x2 drive= for the Class D Tx. The x2 signal is then divided by the Tx driver chain= in the normal way to provide 137.000 kHz to the PA. =20 This method should also work well using WSPR & other similar= modes. ********************************************* ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01CB1165.9A894E90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Scotch Mist  . no  just the=  =20 fog  of progress ... besides, the  frequency  slot = ; is =20 reserved  for  data  only  ,
 
So  there  is no  poss= ibility of qrm=20 , unless  the  reference is to key clicks ?

Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon

So this mode is invisible, in that ca= se I and other=20 CW operators will not know it is there. No evasive action required to= avoid QRM=20 to it or the reverse.
Wonderful news
What I saw and heard the other night= was Scotch=20 Mist
g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Graham
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010= 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500= kHz ROS=20 beacon

''''for instance the French stn F5W= K cannot=20 hear you'''''
 
Well  , yes , that's the = point =20 of it  all  , no  noise, no  trace just  10= 0%=20 pure  digital  data rolling over the  land , like the=  =20 un-seen  fog  of  progress 
 
IARU - R-1 plan .. 137.4 to 137.6&n= bsp; digital=20 modes , with the note that  CW is 'not allowed' 
 
I think the  test and  th= e =20 frequency  went fully  to  'to plan' and paves the wa= y =20 for a magnitudinal  increase in  data  use on 137 ,= to date=20 limited by bandwidth  to  psk31 , ros-mf  by  de= sign =20 occupying on 50%  of the  allowable  space on = 137 =20 and 99% of the  100Hz  allocations  for  500K.= and =20 passing via  a  non linear  system , how  long= will =20 it before the  first  live  data  qso  over= the =20 pond ?
 
G .
 
 

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon
<= /DIV>

Gary
There are too many variables with= these=20 experiments for instance the French stn F5WK cannot hear you bu= t you are=20 S5 solid on 137.5 here at my qth
The RX stations antennas need to be= analyised=20 otherwise it misrepresents what you are doing.
Can u pse use frequencies below 136= .5 kcs=20 otherwise there is a problem with EU and Russian stations using the= area 137 -=20 137.778 kcs for QRS acty.
also this is the DX window area for= the USA and=20 others.
73 de mal/g3kev
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Gary -=20 G4WGT
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010= 4:31=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.50= 0 kHz ROS=20 beacon

Hi Mal,=20

Thank you for your report & comments. The mail you replie= d to gives=20 all the details of equipment in use for the test beacon.

I would like to be able to have a QSO using morse but I have= to admit=20 to a complete loss of confidence as I have not used the mode for= 25 years=20 which was one year after I passed the test in 1984. Looking back,= letting it=20 go was a silly thing to do.

I do enjoy testing out these "weak signal" modes & in the= report I=20 received from Michel F5WK last night he wrote that he could not he= ar the=20 signal or even see it on SpecLab but he got a complete decode. So= as a weak=20 signal communication mode it works.

Just to elaborate on the antenna, it is a 12 metre base loade= d vertical=20 with a small elevated inductor of 500uH at about 9 metres & a= 1 x 3=20 metre capacity top with a 120uH spiral inductor. In my small garde= n I have=20 no space to go outwards only upwards.

73,

Gary - G4WGT.

On 20 June 2010 13:48, mal hamilton <g3= kevmal@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
Gary
If that was you last nite on&nb= sp; 137.5 kcs=20 you were strong enough for cw or qrs3 no need to struggle= with=20 decodes from elswhere.
also I had a qso with G3XIZ thi= s morning on=20 137.0 kcs and got 599, he was 569.
Not sure what antenna u were us= ing but=20 it was putting out a fair signal to this qth. Your radiators are= probably=20 acting as an antenna above earth.
 
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----=
From:<= /B> Gary - G4WGT
Sent: Sunday, June 20,= 2010 12:07=20 PM
Subject: LF: 137.500 kH= z ROS=20 beacon

    Hi LF,
Having successfully bench & on-air tested a x2 harmon= ic=20 amplifier method of driving my G0MRF Class D LF transmitter,= I ran a=20 beacon last night (Saturday 19th) on 137.500 kHz.

An extract from my previous e-mail description is shown= at the=20 end.

Using the equipment & method described below, the ERP= from my=20 12 metre vertical antenna was around 150mW. The mode was ROS= MF-1, 100=20 Hz bandwidth.

I received the following report from Michel, F5WK in JN18= HP, a=20 distance of 410 miles (661 kilometres) in daylight.

>> Not even a faint trace on a QRSS3 spectrum=20 but:

>> RX1: 19:23 @ 5.9 Hz: 9 <STOP> -37= =20 dB
>> RX1: 19:28 @ 5.4 Hz: O4WGT <STOP> -34=20 dB
>> RX1: 19:33 @ 5.4 Hz: G4WGT <STOP> -31 dB<= /DIV>

The x2 harmonic low level amplifier is a simple way of dr= iving a=20 Class D type of transmitter which employs a divide by 2 drive= chain. My=20 limitation with multi tone drive is that my DDS VFO will only= produce 2=20 frequencies ie. the main frequency & a CW/Rx offset which= has=20 previously limited me to 2 tones as with RTTY & DFCW modes= .

Please bear in mind that it will not be suitable for mode= s like PSK=20 were tones are transmitted simultaneously.

At the moment the 2 small PCB's are precariously lying on= the desk,=20 when I have cased them I will publish the circuit & pictur= es.

73

Gary - G4WGT.
    ***********************************************
    After a few days experimenting & bench testing a metho= d of=20 driving my
    G0MRF Class D Tx on the 137.000 kHz band from= my linear=20 transverter I finally
    constructed a harmonic amplifier pr= oducing a=20 274.000 kHz signal from 137.000
    kHz input. An "on-air" tr= ial was=20 conducted resulting in a QSO with
    Graham G0NBD on 137.000= kHz using=20 ROS data mode software.
     
    My thanks to Graham for= his ideas=20 & tests.
     
    The mode used was ROS MF-7. The eq= uipment=20 used for the QSO was as
    follows. Kenwood TS-440 to my LF-= MF linear=20 transverter producing the
    137.000 kHz signal, followed by= a tuned=20 harmonic circuit & buffer
    amplifier whose output was= 274.000=20 kHz therefore at x2 drive for the Class
    D Tx. The x2 sign= al is then=20 divided by the Tx driver chain in the
    normal way to provi= de 137.000=20 kHz to the PA.
     
    This method should also work wel= l using=20 WSPR & other similar modes.
    *********************************************
<= /BLOCKQUOTE>





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