Message-ID: <2EA65E2C56CE4617A086C757B593EA1F@gnat>
From: "Alan Melia" <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
References: <5641F896.30263.DE774B@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 16:14:39 -0000
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Subject: LF: Re: VO1NA - interesting condx
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Status: O

Hi Mike thanks for you observations this has added some support to my ideas 
that this is fading ......... not quite the same as the short period fading 
that normally involved the ground wave as one component of the multi-path.

My idea is that the path from VO1NA to the UK is predominantly 2-hop, but 
1-hop, and 3-hop are also present. In the condiition were say the 1-hop and 
3-hop are in antiphase to the stronger 2-hop all the paths lengthen together 
(i.e the relative phases do do change much) as the apparent reflection 
heigth increases as the darkness period progresses. However in the current 
ionosphere state all modes are attenuated by the precipitated electrons from 
the geomagnetic storm. The higher modes (3-hop) in this case will be 
attenuated more than the others because it has more passes through the 
ionosphere. It is possible this could lead to a slow shift of seemingly 
stable conditions across the country. The fact that the TF grabber had a 
completely bad night might also fit with this.

I have been grappling with this idea for some time because I cannot find 
another mechanism to explain the poor signals reported when Dst is high so 
conditions shoulld be good. This is only really applicable to long paths of 
4000km or more Inter-EU paths of 2000km or less will beafftected but 
differently.

Unfortunately I do not have a way of collecing any data that would help to 
illuminate this further but thoughtful reports and the increased activity 
over a "well trodden" path does help to ferment ideas  :-))

Thanks all for providing my "entertainment" :-))
Alan
G3NYK

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Dennison" <mike.dennison@ntlworld.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; <rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 2:00 PM
Subject: LF: VO1NA - interesting condx


> Very interesting reception of VO1NA last night on 137kHz Opera32.
>
> Firstly, for a long period those stations in the west of the UK
> (GW0EZY, G3XKR, G4WGT, G8HUH) seemed to have much better reception
> than I did in the south-east. It wasn't my receiver, antenna or QRM,
> all was working 100%. Later in the night the situation reversed. It
> is not unusual for stations only a short distance apart to experience
> quite different reception, but I have never seen it demonstrated so
> well. Also, the change was remarkably slow.
>
> Secondly, TF3HZ seemed to have poor reception of VO1NA much of the
> night.
>
> Thirdly, there were several double decodes. I presume this indicated
> deep QSB.
>
> Lastly, this was one of the very few occasions where the deepest of
> the deep searches (the ones with the question marks) actually
> produced a 'true' result - these are both partial decodes, at 0044,
> and 0332. I know these are 'true' because two items - callsign and
> frequency - match up.
>
> I believe there was some interesting fading patterns last night as
> well as some Luxemburg effect.
>
> Perhaps something for the propagation boffins. In any case, this
> showed the value of Opera in producing data when we in Europe are
> asleep!
>
> Thanks to Joe for the signal as usual.
>
> Below is my edited data. I have stripped out the locations to reduce
> line length. Note that most stations show Joe as being on or close
> to137.477kHz (ie 136.0 + 1.477kHz).
>
> Mike, G3XDV
>
> ====================================================
>
> 08:38    136 VO1NA de GW0EZY Op32 Deep Search -42 dB 1478.1 Hz
> 08:33    136 VO1NA de TF3HZ Op32 -36 dB F:13% 1476,9 Hz
>
> 07:58    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 -40 dB F:15%
> 07:58    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -33 dB F:15%
>
> 07:23    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 -34 dB F:22%
> 07:23    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -29 dB F:20%
>
> 06:48    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 -38 dB F:18%
> 06:48    136 VO1NA de PA7EY Op32 -38 dB F:9%
> 06:48    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -28 dB F:0%
>
> 06:13    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -37 dB F:24%
> 06:13    136 VO1NA de PA7EY Op32 -38 dB F:7%
> 06:13    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 -35 dB F:6%
>
> 05:38    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 -36 dB F:7%
> 05:38    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -37 dB F:15%
>
> 05:03    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -34 dB F:10%
>
> 04:32    136 VO1NA de PA7EY Op32 Deep Search -42 dB
> 04:28    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 -37 dB F:6%
>
> 03:57    136 VO1NA de PA7EY Op32 Deep Search ?? -41 dB
> 03:22    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 Deep Search ?? -41 dB 1476.8 Hz
>
> 02:08    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 -39 dB F:19%
> 02:08    136 VO1NA de PA7EY Op32 -30 dB F:1%
> 02:08    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -35 dB F:1%
>
> 01:37    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 Deep Search -43 dB  1476.8 Hz
> 01:33    136 VO1NA de PA7EY Op32 -38 dB F:12%
>
> 01:02    136 VO1NA de PA7EY Op32 Deep Search -41 dB
> 00:58    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 -33 dB F:26%
> 00:44    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 Deep Search ?? -43 dB 1476.8 Hz
>
> 00:27    136 VO1NA de PA7EY Op32 Deep Search -42 dB
> 00:23    136 VO1NA de G4WGT Op32 -35 dB F:28% 1485.4 Hz
>
>
> ***********  10/11/2015  ***********
>
> 23:52    136 VO1NA de G4WGT Op32 Deep Search -42 dB 1485.4 Hz
> 23:48    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -37 dB F:15%
> 23:48    136 VO1NA de GW0EZY Op32 -38 dB F:14% 1478.0 Hz
>
> 23:17    136 VO1NA de 2E0ILY Op32 Deep Search -42 dB 1477.0 Hz
> 23:13    136 VO1NA de TF3HZ Op32 -35 dB F:30%_Ini 1476,9 Hz
> 23:13    136 VO1NA de GW0EZY Op32 -38 dB F:16%  1478.2 Hz
> 23:13    136 VO1NA de G4WGT Op32 -39 dB F:5%  1485.4 Hz
> 23:13    136 VO1NA de TF3HZ Op32 -29 dB F:38%_Ini  1477,0 Hz
> 23:13    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -33 dB F:4%
>
> 22:42    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 Deep Search -41 dB 1476.8 Hz
> 22:38    136 VO1NA de GW0EZY Op32 -37 dB F:15% 1478.0 Hz
> 22:38    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -34 dB F:9%
>
> 22:08    136 VO1NA de TF3HZ Op32 Deep Search -42 dB 1476,9 Hz
> 22:08    136 VO1NA de GW0EZY Op32 Deep Search -42 dB  1478.0 Hz
> 22:03    136 VO1NA de G8HUH Op32 -31 dB F:2%
> 22:03    136 VO1NA de G3XKR Op32 -30 dB F:0%
> 22:03    136 VO1NA de G3XDV Op32 -39 dB F:8%
>