Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3155638000084; Tue, 3 Jan 2012 18:45:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RiE1w-000740-4d for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 23:44:32 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RiE1v-00073r-Kk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 23:44:31 +0000 Received: from nm1.bt.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.183.199]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RiE1u-0006Al-3K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 23:44:31 +0000 Received: from [217.146.183.195] by nm1.bt.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2012 23:44:23 -0000 Received: from [217.146.183.206] by tm1.bt.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2012 23:44:23 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.bt.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2012 23:44:23 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 573750.47478.bm@omp1004.bt.mail.ukl.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 53811 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2012 23:44:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=sh0lc2Bla0d9joBfQxfTuJPAm5s8ORjM6e8IvauiTasYvRjrpVWipWuBGXNaTvQhb0s/A+iYJ38irjpSLVmoComraY/sTFJDzrcxG4T/BTDtBMUon9NOAl/0Z69VjX/quyXPSUIEH/syKXzZ1HqWxfkTfozGB9OFHcqqx3NVGHU= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1325634263; bh=P4ebBPCUxw+WFKsV9zufLBHSOM+wR8SZqBB9g0gQ1eA=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=iWmsFtEimVN/bkbxcYuuet0ijKrC+z2Rd+slnQDsdMQSSMGWikaqOKqcCTtaprfhXEsvYWck7TQ0n3JOnxp3/bwWzGsIZCifzxI2aL27vVwOT88jEar1gW3jfeMLc70rria4qhhJNoAR6n0GLtZsG3xywJDRlX1vYbvfXa7lB7s= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 1_b7ghcVM1lZxKCyFIt25TkFSFC7.Z97rUWjFpFLJprvxE0 Lie2vDNBcAuQ_h_c26mr_pBcGFD4vDyR7CtpMQV.u8kuP6WVzAxburhvm.6B k6B_kJMlt4VIUGZc00V_OpcqijcNY7ZDJpnExiSXRs12_MXhvaMoiTZsk8VO fzDEWAVhORA4ctaMOvq1xjHqcuBpajt23vER06YsqTDFvaFeTqPVF25iocAF 9i3Ec3wvwGGRn36GtDFSgImPfR1CdcRw_taEPl3ISUfHFI..brqYSLINzB.V 0Pk7WetU51rh7.IIT8JLJCZBHRSFs3aRtfbRUGIMkPGpibauZYQediaeW0pE RQrazUw08.Hb1s_r9_9pAH8QMEVuI_DVVj8MHQeKWjqXyrRjFiJ1ztzUkDSG y4pR7auADKqlUSrK0eQ-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.183.217.52 with login) by smtp816.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 03 Jan 2012 23:44:22 +0000 GMT Message-ID: <28DBE4654F1B40AB89241830411BFBB0@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <50CB5299-C570-4ECC-9419-0D01FC708876@numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <50CB5299-C570-4ECC-9419-0D01FC708876@numeo.fr> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 23:44:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Improving Earth Resistance Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:441920288:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d020.1 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404a4f03931a2099 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear John, LF Group, No doubt a high resistance soil would lead to increased earth system resistance, but remember that whatever "earth" resistance you measure is a combination of several sources of electrical losses. In large professional antennas, the earth is normally is the dominant source of loss, hence the big ground mats and radial systems generally employed. But with small amateur antennas, there are other substantial sources of loss as well. The antenna is approximately a capacitor, one plate being the antenna wire, the other plate is the ground. The dielectric of the capacitor is the air between, plus all the stuff in the air subject to the electric field of the antenna, such as trees, buildings, etc. All these poorly-conducting extraneous objects will contribute to the loss of the capacitor, along with the losses of the ground "plate" itself. This is compounded by the amateur antenna having a much higher reactance than much bigger professional antennas, so having higher voltage for a given antenna current. Further, the height above ground of the amateur antenna is much less, and so the electric field between the "plates" is higher due to the smaller separation, for a given antenna voltage. This all adds up to relatively large electric fields, and so higher dielectric losses, contributing a greater proportion of the overall antenna resistance. I suspect that dielectric losses are the dominant component of the antenna resistance for many small amateur antennas. A while back, I did an experiment comparing the resistance of my 10m high home QTH TX antenna with a nearly identical antenna erected in an open field, on the same type of ground, using as near as possible the same earthing system (6 x 1m ground rods). The home QTH antenna, which was surrounded by several trees a similar height to the antenna wire, had a loss resistance of about 50ohms. The open-field antenna had a loss resistance of only 8.5ohms. This demonstrated that the environment surrounding the antenna had a very major effect on the antenna losses, more than the actual antenna and earth system components themselves. I would be interested to know what the environment around your antenna is like. I also tested several quite elaborate ground systems at the home QTH antenna, including large numbers of ground rods distributed over a wide area, various numbers and lengths of insulated ground radials, with and without balancing and decoupling arrangements to ensure the current was distributed reasonably evenly, and areas of wire mesh. None of these things made more than a few ohms difference to the overall loss resistance - it seems you quite quickly reach a point of diminishing returns, where the ground system is only a minor contribution to the loss resistance. One would expect this to be different where the ground conductivity is very poor - my antennas were on rather wet clay soil, so the ground might make rather more difference in sandy or rocky areas. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU