Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 978563800008F; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:23:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TV22U-0005eG-Hc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 15:23:06 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TV22T-0005e7-Gd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 15:23:05 +0000 Received: from imr-da01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.143]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TV22Q-0000gw-1C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 15:23:04 +0000 Received: from mtaout-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.132]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 1CB0C1C000087 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:23:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (nrbg-4d0751b5.pool.mediaWays.net [77.7.81.181]) by mtaout-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 61F48E000109 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 10:22:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <28D7854CA625446396186696FC7920EF@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 16:22:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1352042580; bh=mxDysJz2YKIQpbGP4fxVlQhZHIwWgbfpU4dFbnOVLoY=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WIWnV3i0dcxvSANoVtE0N+nqQcXXmB5/uX1561UMabBDv2MQy0bU/wcrXyO6wbLul B+wIYjtP514F3HUlMu6katT58BPHbp3hcbwgcIdGnwoee3eKLYTDMBABuJH9mLaMp8 sKt1ti7NHybfWczMbePjTzUg6rMK5sTaQwXUcDls= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:481480832:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: The clock error was indeed the culprit! I took the non-decoding 10:26 file and used a hex editor to create slightly time-shifted versions by inserting blocks of 16384 zeroes (about 0.68 seconds) after the wav header. The files with 0.68 and 1.36 s extra delay were instantly decoded, and the relative time shift is shown correctly. The other files which were outside this narrow window do get sync points but detected frequency and DT are wrong, and nothing is dcoded. [...] Content analysis details: (0.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [205.188.105.143 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.4 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails X-Scan-Signature: f839568867110c795774d170690361c4 Subject: Re: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz - clock timing! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01CDBAA8.A452E320" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : mx.aol.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4115509688864c18 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CDBAA8.A452E320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The clock error was indeed the culprit!=20 I took the non-decoding 10:26 file and used a hex editor to create = slightly time-shifted versions by inserting blocks of 16384 zeroes = (about 0.68 seconds) after the wav header. The files with 0.68 and 1.36 = s extra delay were instantly decoded, and the relative time shift is = shown correctly. The other files which were outside this narrow window = do get sync points but detected frequency and DT are wrong, and nothing = is dcoded.=20 http://df6nm.bplaced.net/wsjt/jt9-2_121104/121104_1026_abcd.png Bottom line: I think you have to get the clock to better than about half = a second, which is much tighter than WSPR. This may be difficult if = extra audio pre/preprocessing is employed. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 2:22 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz Thanks a lot Joe, that was fun! Thanks also to Ko for the nice SWL (or = LWL?) report. This is what I got here... 1238 10 -19 0.2 1950.92 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1242 10 -18 0.1 1950.92 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1246 10 -19 -0.1 1951.03 0.00 1250 10 -18 0.2 1951.00 0.00 DF6NM DF2JP R-14 =20 1254 10 -17 0.2 1950.92 0.00 TNX MARKUS 73 =20 1258 10 -17 0.1 1950.92 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1302 10 -18 0.4 1951.00 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 When I first called I had just replaced the TX coil and it was not yet = in resonance, with current about 1.8 instead of the later 3.8 A, which = explains the -21 dB. No idea why it was -10 at 12:52. Before the decodes became successful, I had restarted the NTP clock = setting software. It measured the clock offset as -0.9 seconds, and = corrected it to (nominally) zero. Could this really have made the = difference? Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Joe=20 Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 2:03 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: AW: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz Hi Marcus, =20 Well, no problem to catch you, but look at the difference -21dB to = -10dB 1240 10 -21 0.2 1423.00 0.00 DF2JP DF6NM -16=20 1244 10 -14 0.3 1423.00 0.00 DF2JP DF6NM -16=20 1248 10 -14 0.0 1423.00 0.00 DF2JP DF6NM -16=20 1252 10 -10 0.1 1423.26 0.00 DF2JP DF6NM RRR=20 1256 10 -14 0.2 1423.00 0.00 GD JOE NOW FB =20 So now watching F1, back in 2hours. =20 73 Joe =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Markus Vester Gesendet: Sonntag, 4. November 2012 13:34 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz =20 Joe,=20 =20 consistent decodes since 11:58... if only I knew why! =20 1158 10 -18 -0.1 1950.92 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1200 2 -27 0.0 1941.01 0.00 1202 10 -20 0.2 1951.00 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1204 2 -27 -0.4 1940.35 0.00 1206 10 -18 0.0 1950.84 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1214 10 -18 -0.1 1950.84 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1218 10 -16 0.3 1951.00 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1222 10 -17 0.2 1950.92 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1226 10 -18 0.1 1950.92 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG =20 1230 10 -16 0.0 1950.92 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG=20 =20 One successful wav from 12:22 also uploaded to http://df6nm.bplaced.net/wsjt/jt9-2_121104/ =20 Will try to call you for another QSO. =20 73, Markus =20 From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 12:31 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz =20 Switched the LF grabber back to the rooftop TX Marconi, which improved = SNR by about 5 dB. Got a single decode at 11:18 but otherwise all empty = lines :-( =20 1118 10 -18 -0.4 1951.07 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG 1120 2 -27 0.3 1924.55 0.00 1122 10 -16 -0.4 1951.10 0.00 =20 73, Markus =20 PS The rain has stopped, and we're getting patchy sunshine. =20 From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 11:39 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz =20 Joe, =20 it's raining here also now - what a "dog's weather" ;-) =20 My main antenna is currently still resonated on MF but I'm receiving you = well on the auxiliary low-mounted "summer antenna" in the garden. = Half-seriously thought that lower SNR might help to decode, but = apparently not so: =20 1020 1 -28 -0.4 1927.09 0.00=20 1022 10 -20 -0.4 1951.03 0.00 1024 0 -31 -0.3 1951.76 0.00 1026 10 -21 -0.1 1951.65 0.00 1028 0 -30 -0.1 1923.24 0.00 1030 10 -20 -0.4 1951.81 0.00 =20 Using WSJT-X v0.2 r2713, wav file from 10:26 uploaded to http://df6nm.bplaced.net/wsjt/jt9-2_121104/121104_1026.wav =20 Best 73,=20 Markus =20 From: Joe=20 Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 10:43 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: AW: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz =20 Good morning Markus, LF =20 Nice to hear that You had such a nice weather, when I was out with the = dog, it was raining cats here.hi.hi =20 I=B4ve just started my daylight session on 136.000 + 1445Hz in JT9-2. Reports are much appreciated. =20 Running 80 watts in to an Inverted-L (13m x 46m) =20 73 Joe =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Markus Vester Gesendet: Samstag, 3. November 2012 18:05 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz =20 Hey Joe, =20 this afternoon the PC in the shack faithfully reported your WSPRm, while = I was enjoying the autumn sunshine in the garden with our cat ;-)=20 =20 When your JT9-1 came up again I attempted again for a while to decode = it, but all I got between 16:37 and 16:43 were a few sync points on the = right frequency (using r2813 at 135.5 kHz USB).=20 =20 Irgendwo is' da noch der Wurm drin... =20 =20 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 From: Joe=20 Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 4:12 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz =20 Hi Marcus, LF =20 I=B4m currently txing JT9-1 on 136.000 Dial + 1445 kHz. Have to go out with the dog but leave the becon running. =20 73 Joe DF2JP =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Markus Vester Gesendet: Samstag, 3. November 2012 10:57 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz =20 9:51 decoded nicely, 9:53, 9:55 not decoded =20 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 0950 1 -27 0.0 1958.60 0.00=20 0951 5 -24 -0.2 1944.96 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG=20 0952 2 -26 0.1 1959.61 0.00 0953 10 -21 -0.2 1944.69 0.00 0954 3 -26 -0.1 1958.60 0.00 0955 10 -20 -0.2 1945.38 0.00 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CDBAA8.A452E320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The clock error was indeed the culprit! =
 
I took the non-decoding 10:26 file and = used a hex=20 editor to create slightly time-shifted versions by = inserting blocks of=20 16384 zeroes (about 0.68 seconds) after the wav header. The files = with 0.68=20 and 1.36 s extra delay were instantly decoded, and the relative time = shift is=20 shown correctly. The other files which were outside this narrow = window=20 do get sync points but detected frequency and DT are wrong, and = nothing is=20 dcoded.
 
= http://df6nm.bplaced.net/wsjt/jt9-2_121104/121104_1026_abcd.png
 
Bottom line: I think you = have to get the=20 clock to better than about half a second, which is much tighter than = WSPR. This=20 may be difficult if extra audio pre/preprocessing is = employed.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
From: Markus Vester
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 2:22 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 = kHz

Thanks a lot Joe, that was fun! Thanks = also to Ko=20 for the nice SWL (or LWL?) report.
 
This is what I got here...
 
1238  10  -19   0.2 = 1950.92  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG          =
1242 =20 10  -18   0.1 1950.92  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG          =
1246 =20 10  -19  -0.1 1951.03  0.00
1250  10 =20 -18   0.2 1951.00  0.00   DF6NM DF2JP=20 R-14     
1254  10  = -17   0.2=20 1950.92  0.00   TNX MARKUS=20 73        
1258  = 10 =20 -17   0.1 1950.92  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG          =
1302 =20 10  -18   0.4 1951.00  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG          =
When I first called I had = just replaced the TX=20 coil and it was not yet in resonance, with current about 1.8 = instead=20 of the later 3.8 A, which explains the -21 dB. No idea why it was = -10 at=20 12:52.
 
Before the decodes became successful, I = had restarted the NTP clock setting software. It measured the=20 clock offset as -0.9 seconds, = and corrected=20 it to (nominally) zero. Could this really have made the = difference?
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
From: Joe
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: AW: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 = kHz

Hi=20 Marcus,

 

 Well, = no problem=20 to catch you, but look at the difference -21dB to=20 -10dB

1240 10 -21 0.2 1423.00 0.00 = DF2JP DF6NM -16=20

1244 10 -14 0.3 = 1423.00 0.00=20 DF2JP DF6NM -16

1248 10 -14 0.0 = 1423.00 0.00=20 DF2JP DF6NM -16

1252 10 -10 0.1 1423.26 0.00 = DF2JP DF6NM=20 RRR

1256 10 -14 0.2 1423.00 0.00 GD = JOE NOW=20 FB

 

So now watching F1, back in=20 2hours.

 

73 Joe

 

Von:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]=20 Im Auftrag von Markus=20 Vester
Gesendet: = Sonntag, 4.=20 November 2012 13:34
An:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 = 137.445=20 kHz

 

Joe,=20

 

consistent decodes since = 11:58... if=20 only I knew why!

 

1158  10  = -18  -0.1=20 1950.92  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG         =20
1200   2  -27   0.0 1941.01 =20 0.00
1202  10  -20   0.2 1951.00  = 0.00  =20 DF2JP JO31JG         =20
1204   2  -27  -0.4 1940.35  = 0.00
1206 =20 10  -18   0.0 1950.84  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG         =20

1214  10  = -18  -0.1=20 1950.84  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG          =
1218 =20 10  -16   0.3 1951.00  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG          =
1222 =20 10  -17   0.2 1950.92  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG          =
1226 =20 10  -18   0.1 1950.92  0.00   DF2JP=20 JO31JG  

1230  10  = -16  =20 0.0 1950.92  0.00   DF2JP JO31JG=20

 

One successful wav from = 12:22 also=20 uploaded to

http://df6nm.bplaced= .net/wsjt/jt9-2_121104/

 

Will try to call you for = another=20 QSO.

 

73,=20 Markus

 

From: Markus Vester=20

Sent: Sunday,=20 November 04, 2012 12:31 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: Re: LF:=20 AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 = kHz

 

Switched the LF grabber = back to the=20 rooftop TX Marconi, which improved SNR by about 5 dB. Got a single = decode=20 at 11:18 but otherwise all empty lines = :-(

 

1118 = 10 -18 -0.4=20 1951.07 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG

1120 2 -27 0.3 1924.55=20 0.00

1122 10 -16 -0.4 1951.10=20 0.00

 

73,=20 Markus

 

PS The rain = has=20 stopped, and we're getting patchy sunshine.

 

From: Markus = Vester=20

Sent: Sunday,=20 November 04, 2012 11:39 AM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: Re: LF:=20 AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 = kHz

 

Joe,

 

it's raining here also now = - what a=20 "dog's weather" ;-)

 

My main antenna is = currently still=20 resonated on MF but I'm receiving you well on the auxiliary = low-mounted=20 "summer antenna" in the garden. Half-seriously thought that lower SNR = might help=20 to decode, but apparently not so:

 

1020 1 -28 -0.4 1927.09 = 0.00=20

1022 10 -20 -0.4 1951.03=20 0.00

1024 0 -31 -0.3 1951.76=20 0.00

1026 10 -21 -0.1 1951.65=20 0.00

1028 0 -30 -0.1 1923.24=20 0.00

1030 10 -20 -0.4 1951.81=20 0.00

 

Using = WSJT-X v0.2=20 r2713, wav file from 10:26 uploaded to

http:= //df6nm.bplaced.net/wsjt/jt9-2_121104/121104_1026.wav

 

Best 73,=20

Markus

 

From: Joe=20

Sent: Sunday,=20 November 04, 2012 10:43 AM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: AW: LF:=20 AW: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 = kHz

 

Good morning Markus,=20 LF

 

Nice to hear that You had = such a=20 nice weather, when I was out with the dog, it was raining cats=20 here=85hi.hi

 

I=B4ve just started my = daylight=20 session on 136.000 + 1445Hz in JT9-2.

Reports are much=20 appreciated.

 

Running 80 watts in to an = Inverted-L=20 (13m x 46m)

 

73 = Joe

 

 

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Markus = Vester
Gesendet: Samstag, 3. November = 2012=20 18:05
An:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: LF: AW: DF2JP JT9-1 = 137.445=20 kHz

 

Hey=20 Joe,

 

this afternoon the = PC in the=20 shack faithfully reported your WSPRm, while I was enjoying the = autumn=20 sunshine in the garden with our cat ;-) =

 

When your JT9-1 = came up=20 again I attempted again for a while to decode it, but all = I=20 got between 16:37 and 16:43 were a few sync points on the right = frequency=20 (using r2813 at 135.5 kHz USB). 

 

Irgendwo is' da noch der = Wurm=20 drin...   

 

Best = 73,

Markus = (DF6NM)

 

From: Joe=20

Sent: Saturday,=20 November 03, 2012 4:12 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: LF: AW:=20 DF2JP JT9-1 137.445 kHz

 

Hi Marcus,=20 LF

 

I=B4m currently txing = JT9-1 on 136.000=20 Dial + 1445 kHz.

Have to go out with the = dog but=20 leave the becon running.

 

73 = Joe

DF2JP

 

 

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Markus = Vester
Gesendet: Samstag, 3. November = 2012=20 10:57
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Betreff: LF: DF2JP JT9-1 137.445=20 kHz

 

9:51 decoded=20 nicely,

9:53, = 9:55 not=20 decoded

 

73, Markus=20 (DF6NM)

 

0950 1 -27 0.0 1958.60 0.00=20

0951 5 -24 -0.2 1944.96 0.00 DF2JP JO31JG=20

0952 2 -26 0.1 1959.61=20 0.00

0953 10 -21 -0.2 1944.69=20 0.00

0954 3 -26 -0.1 1958.60=20 0.00

0955 10 -20 -0.2 1945.38=20 0.00

 

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CDBAA8.A452E320--