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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id n4si10112863wib.17.2013.12.24.16.09.17 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 16:09:17 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@mx.aol.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1VvbZA-0002rI-7X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:39:12 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1VvbZ9-0002r9-CZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:39:11 +0000 Received: from omr-d01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.252.208]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1VvbZ6-0005WI-AV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:39:10 +0000 Received: from mtaout-mcb01.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mcb01.mx.aol.com [172.26.50.173]) by omr-d01.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id D1076700544E4 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:39:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (95-91-238-155-dynip.superkabel.de [95.91.238.155]) by mtaout-mcb01.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id DC6F338000085 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:39:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2529247B970C4C4D86A1783023F7EA88@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: ,<52BE460978014BA48825BACB580AB49C@White> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 00:38:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1387928345; bh=/9FGM0OIehCMV2gTcVVCerVDHIkscymtXFCdrAhRk/c=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Nse+0GDYd7HvJa5DCF1Bz8ggwZqJAWdbzKsybf6Oc03jKz3gSgsJg502ngusHxy37 6NiBG+G3tGlqNFRD9MmHUpG1UMkO7fY/eGiUpQI79q3Tgc0t8hwjSVcWtfw2oeqmHS DKB+iHrOEIOmSYlfmHwhxblYQ2n36SUnqh6ymn3g= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a32ad52ba1b162a2c X-AOL-IP: 95.91.238.155 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Bob, I've never been to Grimeton myself yet, so only a lttle understanding from reading and pictures. Recently there have been articles on SAQ in two German ham radio magazines (Funkamateur and cq-DL). Other members of the LF group may have much more knowledge, eg a couple of interesting tech notes from Dick PA0SE available on the web: http://hamradio.nikhef.nl/amrad/history/saq1.pdf http://hamradio.nikhef.nl/amrad/history/saq2.pdf Perhaps more loosely related, there's also the unforgettable electro-mechanical VLF receiver from Jim M0BMU http://www.wireless.org.uk/mechrx.htm [...] Content analysis details: (0.5 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [205.188.252.208 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.6 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails X-Scan-Signature: fcf77e2759cb043d8839e008dc214d5a Subject: Re: VLF: SAQ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CF0109.B3D1D380" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3516 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CF0109.B3D1D380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob, I've never been to Grimeton myself yet, so only a lttle understanding = from reading and pictures. Recently there have been articles on SAQ in = two German ham radio magazines (Funkamateur and cq-DL). Other members of = the LF group may have much more knowledge, eg a couple of interesting = tech notes from Dick PA0SE available on the web: http://hamradio.nikhef.nl/amrad/history/saq1.pdf http://hamradio.nikhef.nl/amrad/history/saq2.pdf Perhaps more loosely related, there's also the unforgettable = electro-mechanical VLF receiver from Jim M0BMU http://www.wireless.org.uk/mechrx.htm=20 > Is SAQ transmitter output determined by tuning of antenna. If over = coupled would signal loose it's nice T9 tone and signal widen?=20 > The giant alternator essentially behaves like a self excited osc = transmitter? Setting antenna couple just right for max output with = stable chirp free tone?=20 No, I think the stability and tone quality of an alternator is solely = related to the regulated speed of the motor and the even tooth pitch in = the generator. Antenna coupling will affect the output power, but the = frequency only indirectly due to a slight slowdown of the motor under = load.. > It is essentially dumping keyup into a large dummy ant like an arc = transmitter? Then simplifying tune-up so ant match and coupling be = similar to keyup condition into dummy ant? My understanding is that at keyup the antenna is detuned by a saturating = inductor, there is no RF dumping into a dummy load. However there seems = to be an external chirp compensation circuit in the motor drive which = increases torque immediately on key down, preempting the slower = frequency regulator loop. =20 All the best to you and yours, 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:59 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: VLF: SAQ Markus; If you have the time-hasn't got to be right now-first, Merry Xmas to you = and family from us. Is SAQ transmitter output determined by tuning of antenna. If over = coupled would signal loose it's nice T9 tone and signal widen?=20 The giant alternator essentially behaves like a self excited osc = transmitter? Setting antenna couple just right for max output with = stable chirp free tone?=20 It is essentially dumping keyup into a large dummy ant like an arc = transmitter? Then simplifying tune-up so ant match and coupling be = similar to keyup condition into dummy ant? Bob =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 09:24:13 +0100 Subject: VLF: SAQ Very nice reception here in Nuernberg as well: http://www.df6nm.darc.de/vlf/vlfgrabber.htm Merry Christmas to all! 73, Markus (DF6NM) ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CF0109.B3D1D380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Bob,
 
I've never been to Grimeton myself yet, = so only a=20 lttle understanding from reading and pictures. Recently there have been = articles=20 on SAQ in two German ham radio magazines (Funkamateur and = cq-DL).=20 Other members of the LF group may have much more knowledge, = eg a=20 couple of interesting tech notes from Dick PA0SE available on the=20 web:
http://hamradio= .nikhef.nl/amrad/history/saq1.pdf
http://hamradio= .nikhef.nl/amrad/history/saq2.pdf
Perhaps more loosely related, there's = also the=20 unforgettable electro-mechanical VLF receiver from Jim = M0BMU
http://www.wireless.org.uk= /mechrx.htm 
 
 
>=20 Is SAQ transmitter output determined by tuning of = antenna.  If=20 over coupled would signal loose it's nice T9 tone and signal=20 widen? 
> The giant alternator essentially behaves like a self excited = osc=20 transmitter?  Setting antenna couple just right for max output with = stable=20 chirp free tone? 
No, I think the stability and tone = quality of an=20 alternator is solely related to the regulated speed of the motor and the = even=20 tooth pitch in the generator. Antenna coupling will affect the output = power, but=20 the frequency only indirectly due to a slight slowdown of the motor = under=20 load..

> It is essentially dumping keyup = into a=20 large dummy ant like an arc transmitter?  Then simplifying tune-up = so ant=20 match and coupling be similar to keyup condition into dummy=20 ant?

My understanding is that at keyup the antenna is = detuned by=20 a saturating inductor, there is no RF dumping into a dummy load. = However=20 there seems to be an external chirp compensation circuit in the motor = drive=20 which increases torque immediately on key down, preempting the = slower=20 frequency regulator loop.  
 
 
All the best to you and = yours,
 
73, Markus (DF6NM)
 

From: Bob Raide
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:59 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: RE: VLF: SAQ

Markus;
If you have the time-hasn't got to be right = now-first,=20 Merry Xmas to you and family from us.
Is SAQ transmitter = output=20 determined by tuning of antenna.  If over coupled would signal = loose it's=20 nice T9 tone and signal widen? 
The giant alternator essentially = behaves=20 like a self excited osc transmitter?  Setting antenna couple just = right for=20 max output with stable chirp free tone? 
 It is essentially = dumping=20 keyup into a large dummy ant like an arc transmitter?  Then = simplifying=20 tune-up so ant match and coupling be similar to keyup condition into = dummy=20 ant?
Bob
 
From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: = Tue, 24=20 Dec 2013 09:24:13 +0100
Subject: VLF: SAQ

Very nice reception here in Nuernberg = as=20 well:
 
http://www.df6nm.darc.de/vlf/vlfgrabber.htm
 
Merry Christmas to all!
 
73, Markus (DF6NM)
 
 
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