Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1E28738000099; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 14:27:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RzCPA-0005V3-8e for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 19:26:40 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RzCP8-0005Uu-Vv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 19:26:38 +0000 Received: from nm4.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([212.82.108.235]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RzCP5-0005Ia-Ra for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2012 19:26:38 +0000 Received: from [212.82.108.231] by nm4.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2012 19:26:30 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.225] by tm4.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2012 19:26:29 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1002.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2012 19:26:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 937348.37394.bm@omp1002.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 5351 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2012 19:26:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:From:To:References:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:X-MimeOLE:Thread-index; b=XiWKgJO0LkCK31w0supkkxqxISqNDWV1VnroJ5GUga+zM4Zqx7JQGRJpRW4AW3IVz6AGENTMF2Pw+6fwjzKXIHOdwVwmlROTQtbcTUMs/uVzt59r3mmP024wDBbi6HDsbtb1RvQmniZa+1YjzwhZ1o2UbkV+MYraSOz3K5X6ofw= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1329679589; bh=TY1VqlrRh6SLslzeP4h8vwlA/upH2dmHKchQvzBOuHM=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:From:To:References:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:X-MimeOLE:Thread-index; b=KtG5CSCqZdEd81oQzi4d1HTBOYwiGSDqRB9EyFvFZDvHkAY3WUizmZkTXO1/QKLJ03GhrNSLo+rZfJTVKutr7Y+yaDT2t/SJXj2KwU28ZDI2Sfm3BRkREN1lYgPNUDb6Pczjg2CpiubOsKlwrCSBaqZkTvq36c650z7bxM+rznA= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: JlS8giQVM1lzH9UguHzScyQFxN_kh0nwv0wvegIDR94Me8D EQF8ffxOUyVWAHVksDQbHWiLjsMi4n_LBWGNI9t_TPhAqZaGrW3jYm3sc932 6kpKyocsisiT20M5mrMuboB0ET0YBq7l_09i7cix7tt7zyBcEbzFbQoVe09r F_JLasQM55PBN_mqCiedSJFlcWf4UpqJ_o6n6dhgx7Ub4gkRV3f.6DSZyg83 GchNvKzGLmMaTOeHLs45asANXYFEy4UM2GJFw6dqPtqsrukKsgd6s_bXCzgf J6qqV73nKQHJytOzk3X29DGmvsf8S0gJEQ1vcGJBgynjJpXYImYLvYt40CrL Nm_dOBVWwx_yfFMsy2mNXlr4ynrZmHj3qGxfCXs1kIgA4h_vAbbUeMqWloZc JWhFArwzAgoee9nhhOTuRQo2XBIvI X-Yahoo-SMTP: 9Y6mUHuswBAgnrOsukIiNdFDf95uy_Dz34nY1hlg2liKgYD952sjbg-- Received: from lindavideo (ken.h.wright@86.149.193.253 with login) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2012 11:26:28 -0800 PST From: "Ken" To: References: <002a01ccee25$c2416cd0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4F3F800B.2000201@xs4all.nl> <003e01ccee2d$49b17f50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <007f01ccee6c$3eca0f50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <6ADDBBA8CD0B4DC38D7950C75294B505@AGB> <004601cceee8$7566da80$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <2AB0A82B2A6F4A0ABCD855D8AB420777@lindavideo> <000f01cceef9$bbcbe130$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 19:26:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20939DDAB9A34C99BF9854521FFDF361@lindavideo> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <000f01cceef9$bbcbe130$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-index: Aczu+ej8UJd0ZKK4R/iJTO/sTraEvQAQTJ0A DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CCEF3C.60822580" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:468272704:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m009.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d74f414d326d69 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CCEF3C.60822580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mal. The telephone portion is speech in the standard 300Hz - 3400Hz speech band directly on the copper pairs, the DSL sits on top of this using the DSLAM in the exchange, that is why you have a 'Micro Filter' at each telephone outlet in the house, do you have a 'Micro Filter at each telephone outlet? Regards. Ken M0KHW _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 19 February 2012 11:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 Tnx Ken info No overhead lines around my QTH, all underground and there is no problem with the telephone regardless of power on any band. Normally it is not a problem with CW, SSB, or QRSS it is just a problem with Opera because of the data base feedback facility 73 de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:05 AM Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 Hi Mal. I had the same problem until I went Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC), if you are on a long local line especially if it is overhead, the most likely there will not be any DSL carriers above 500kHz, and what are present will have a very poor S/N ratio. I fitted common mode chokes on every piece of cable I could find and they made no difference, only a few watts at 500kHz and the lower HF bands would cause the DSL router to drop out and re-train up. I had my ex (pre-retirement) colleagues from BT Adastral Park, conduct measurements on my local line, (2.8km in length with 30m of drop wire) as part of a national survey, the line without the common mode chokes had no DSL carriers above 500kHz with an S/N less than 10dB, with a few watts of TX power with and without CMCs the remaining carriers were degraded sufficiently to cause the router to retrain. Another cause could be if you have drop wire there could be corrosion on any external screw terminals causing 'Rectified Joints' like the rusty bolt effect on radio masts, water getting into older types of drop wire can cause corrosion on the plated steel conductors. Hope this helps. Ken ex-BT Adastral Parkl M0KHW _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 19 February 2012 09:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 Graham I have some filtering and the phone is not effected only the data stream taking some hits. It could well be an earth loop problem, must investigate further. Its a long time since I have been in Walmsley/Liverpool. I used that route frequently Liverpool/Belfast but these days its Cairnryan/Larne The mode is popular because it is easy to implement especially with CW transmitters and C/D/E amplifiers. 73 de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 R Mal Yes I cam across this some time ago with the first broad band router, I brought one by edimax , not supposed to be the best , but had a metal case and a real fcc licence , that was fine , till adsl2 , the net-gear modem supplied was 100% u/s with any Rf on any band .... I brought the the newer version of the edimax , its not as Rf proof as the old adsl-1 version, but for some reason , only takes a hit on 160/80 Not too much you can do , apart from the usual Rf chokes , could try a radio card from the router to the PC , if that's where the Rf is being picked up ..unplug everything , see if it crashes with just the phone line connected ? but with just the driver , sounds a bit like a earth link .. depends how you have the station wired up , i am in the top front room of the house , so no direct earth , that's out in the shed , where the tuners are , but I need to bond everything together to stop cable pick up.. 73 -G.. From: mal hamilton Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:36 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 Yes Graham This seems to be the problem although it recovers quickly but not quick enough. It happens with very little RF being transmitted at the driver chip stage without the PA switched on. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:00 PM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 Mal, Are you sure the internet/broadband connection is not being frozen by the TX . ? I have this problem on 160 and 80 for some reason , 10 watts and the web traffic stops but oddly , no problem on the other bands ...so you can miss the incoming spots .. check the psk map and you will see 'who' is decoding you .. This is one of the reasons a server handling the ros & opera s/n reports would be a good addition . but the problem is finding some one or group who could construct such a piece of software .. it can be located on the sever JR runs .... still looking for offers on that .. 73 -G. From: mal hamilton Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:05 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 Tnx Albert But why am I not seeing this info on the right hand windiow. You are S9 audible mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 Op 18-2-2012 11:12, mal hamilton schreef: mf Does anyone copy my op4 on 501.5 at present. No database feedback from anyone mal/g3kev 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0LCE Op4 495 km -9 dB in LAGE MIERDE JO21NJ 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA3ABK Op4 443 km -3 dB in Dordrecht 10:16 500 G3KEV de G3ZJO Op4 229 km -26 dB in Northampton 10:16 500 G3KEV de ON6EO Op4 -4 dB in JO11LE 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0ONO Op4 421 km -13 dB in Rotterdam 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0A Op4 461 km -1 dB in Lucaswolde JO33DE 10:15 500 G3ZJO de G3ZJO Op4 0 km +6 dB in Northampton with .0002w + 5m inv L-rx mini whip ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CCEF3C.60822580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Mal.

The telephone = portion is speech in the standard 300Hz – 3400Hz speech band directly on the = copper pairs, the DSL sits on top of this using the DSLAM in the exchange, that = is why you have a ‘Micro Filter’ at each telephone outlet in the = house, do you have a ‘Micro Filter at each telephone = outlet?

Regards.=

Ken

M0KHW

 

 

From:= owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal = hamilton
Sent: 19 February 2012 = 11:29
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera = 500

 

Tnx Ken info

No overhead lines around my QTH, all underground and there is no problem with the telephone regardless of = power on any band.

Normally it is not a problem with = CW, SSB, or QRSS it is just a problem with Opera because of the data base = feedback facility

73 de mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Ken =

Sent:<= /b> Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:05 = AM

Subject: RE: LF: opera 500

 

Hi = Mal.

I had the same = problem until I went Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC), if you are on a long local = line especially if it is overhead, the most likely there will not be any DSL carriers above 500kHz, and what are present will have a very poor S/N = ratio. I fitted common mode chokes on every piece of cable I could find and they = made no difference, only a few watts at 500kHz and the lower HF bands would = cause the DSL router to drop out and re-train up. I had my ex (pre-retirement) = colleagues  from BT Adastral Park, conduct measurements on my local line, = (2.8km in length with 30m of drop wire) as part of a national survey, the line = without the common mode chokes had no DSL carriers above 500kHz with an S/N less = than 10dB, with a few watts of TX power with and without CMCs the remaining = carriers were degraded sufficiently to cause the router to retrain. Another cause = could be if you have drop wire there could be corrosion on any external screw terminals causing ‘Rectified Joints’ like the rusty bolt = effect on radio masts, water getting into older types of drop wire can cause = corrosion on the plated steel conductors.

Hope this = helps.

Ken  &nbs= p; ex-BT Adastral Parkl

M0KHW

   <= o:p>

 

From:= owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal = hamilton
Sent: 19 February 2012 = 09:26
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera = 500

 

Graham

I have some filtering and the = phone is not effected only the data stream taking some hits. =

It could well be an earth = loop problem, must investigate further.

Its a long time since I have = been in Walmsley/Liverpool. I used that route frequently Liverpool/Belfast but = these days its Cairnryan/Larne

The mode is popular because = it is easy to implement especially with CW transmitters and C/D/E amplifiers. =

73 de = mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Graham

Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:02 PM

Subject: Re: LF: opera 500

 

R = Mal

 

Yes  I cam  = across  this  some  time ago  with the  first  = broad  band  router,  I brought  one  by  edimax , = not  supposed to be the  best , but  had a metal  case  and  a  real   fcc  licence , that  was fine , till adsl2  , the  net-gear modem supplied  was  100% u/s   with  any  Rf  on = any  band ....

 

I brought the  = the  newer version of the  edimax , its   not  as  Rf = proof as the  old adsl-1  version, but  for  some  reason  , only  takes a  hit  on = 160/80  

 

Not  too  = much  you  can  do  , apart  from the  =  usual  Rf chokes , could  try  a  radio  card  from = the  router to the  PC , if that's where  the  Rf is = being  picked  up  ..unplug   everything  , see  = if it  crashes  with  just the  phone  line  connected ? but  with just the  driver , sounds a bit  = like a earth  link .. depends how  you  have the  = station  wired up , i am  in the  top  front  room of = the  house , so  no  direct  earth  , that's  = out  in the  shed , where the  tuners  are ,  but  = I need  to  bond  everything  together to  = stop  cable  pick up..

 

73 = -G..

 

 

 

From: mal hamilton

Sent: = Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:36 PM

Subject: Re: LF: = opera 500

 

Yes = Graham

This seems to be the problem although it recovers quickly but not quick enough. It happens with very = little RF being transmitted at the driver chip stage without the PA switched = on.

de = mal/g3kev

 

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Graham

Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:00 PM

Subject: Re: LF: opera 500

 

Mal,=

 

Are  you  sure = the  internet/broadband  connection  is not  being  = frozen  by the  TX . ?

 

I have this  = problem  on 160 and  80  for  some  reason , 10 watts  and the  web traffic stops

but oddly , no  problem = on the  other bands ...so  you  can  miss  = the  incoming  spots ..

check  the  = psk  map and you  will  see  'who'  is  = decoding you ..

 

This  is  one of = the  reasons  a  server handling the   ros  & opera   s/n  reports   would  be  = a  good  addition  . but the  problem  is  = finding  some one or group  who could construct  such a  = piece of  software .. it can  be  located   on  the  sever  JR runs  ....  still  looking  for  offers  on that  ..

 

73 -G. =

 

From: mal hamilton

Sent: = Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:05 AM

Subject: Re: LF: = opera 500

 

Tnx = Albert

But why am I not seeing this = info on the right hand windiow. You are S9 audible

 

mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Albert

Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:40 = AM

Subject: Re: LF: opera 500

 

Op 18-2-2012 11:12, mal = hamilton = schreef:

mf

Does anyone copy my op4 on = 501.5 at present. No database feedback from anyone

mal/g3kev

 

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de PA0LCE Op4 495 km -9 dB in LAGE MIERDE = JO21NJ

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de PA3ABK Op4 443 km -3 dB in Dordrecht

=

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de G3ZJO Op4 229 km -26 dB in Northampton

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de ON6EO Op4  -4 dB in = JO11LE

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de PA0ONO Op4 421 km -13 dB in Rotterdam

=

10:16    500 G3KEV de PA0A Op4 461 km -1 dB = in Lucaswolde JO33DE

10:15 =    500 G3ZJO de G3ZJO Op4 0 km +6 dB in Northampton with .0002w + 5m inv L-rx mini whip

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