Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tA1FFiJt014350 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 16:15:44 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZsuJ5-0002MB-Ry for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2015 15:12:31 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZsuJ4-0002M2-V8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2015 15:12:30 +0000 Received: from nm31-vm5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.136.216.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ZsuI1-0005pv-1V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2015 15:12:29 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=sbcglobal.net Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s2048; t=1446390667; bh=ktbOQL4nvr4Vsla9rHNDPk3fixvcU5/2ClEdY13WTKA=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=n94v8zJ5vQGqZLx221/NxqbbCAoBUpCass9Uuff+mtF9l4xInGe4mh6uamMVlJ0x7lJNPz+L9hblI/FojK7tQJnTmtOxMoZKZD0r85LKuagKV3to6zF0cANVMikUDqjaM3fL7sXuo1bdZtEsQpHZJlGlaL9l32H0Wpy6z8Sx442Gw8Ohji5/UHGzy0J06pT7tgW1IWvL69jZiGhz9elp45JCdwGk3TV2sWOfTuGUoIWxXW6142/Hr5P7Yb1TpvtMPC7uypOVGaxti8Eq81uE1SxA19fO0khfrSgDdHupFmGVjL+hrPQ7wUCcUg5CB0zo0vGaq+edmex7LOPShxstcA== Received: from [127.0.0.1] by nm31.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2015 15:11:07 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.191] by nm31.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2015 15:08:22 -0000 Received: from [98.139.215.142] by tm12.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2015 15:08:22 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.250] by tm13.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2015 15:08:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1059.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Nov 2015 15:08:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-4 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 950424.59663.bm@omp1059.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: oZxartsVM1mfct74EgQTgDNwDhfG0qdMIQEebUZSS97tNLQF33BoZA3ejf0VW30 WRKfDhITjrDp8jLweqIISPvF68BpFpEU27owPlqvV.Q583w8fstcYILJbRFH1X.0QjSBlfFaSgqV LxKDXifkuf2hvxjLYCWMZkYN.3LQNE6ErcC9mZo9JURGpmmnGj59z9T6i0_xionH13YXsuW0tS56 xRSdoSns7TT6LR140iqnmpReAiaR3pryy7xYny0EZsiyRTxqPxSbIfXATfyBjdpiLrUlcVtcRuOI 748SDaICwwrssoLzNyDGRsHxwa2PWBUZVGTvOv5PJ3PRQZuBbyqwbh_GE5TejIRA1ta8ke5apwML 1SdWrYuAz4mrNUin3gKmAyl41pXsDVvHJJ9lO.tmCQpE6qHy5y6eVD7FwhIN7r2t8vO3Yo4JUoyq okuAeQdlhhhqKldDtLbJAQgOpYCNT6aWUmAMJPDm6.Is2T.ZFA5iq_6JqwXTPnvCHT5To6vzlyy2 Q5VU_P0KM4V9rNHKZgfWUODWsBtowmtPKBBfy Received: by 76.13.27.35; Sun, 01 Nov 2015 15:08:21 +0000 Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 15:08:20 +0000 (UTC) From: John Langridge To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Message-ID: <203642467.478206.1446390500981.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <57FD07E7F9444DC0A077F7C4102A574C@PCFausto> References: <57FD07E7F9444DC0A077F7C4102A574C@PCFausto> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scan-Signature: 1a92164900c4e119399f770c0cc93934 Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_478205_2088366568.1446390500961" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4756 ------=_Part_478205_2088366568.1446390500961 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To take Fausto's comments a step further to real time application, over her= e we use=C2=A0 WSPR to determine the propagation patterns, QSB and peaks an= d coordinate in real time for CW skeds in the ON4KST chat.=C2=A0 When we se= e numbers -10 to -12 db S/N we know we can make something happen usually.. = better than -10 db means we can actually chat and have usually have several= meaningup exchanges.=C2=A0 WSPR is a very good tool for these determinatio= ns.=C2=A0=20 It can be an better solution than endless calling if properly applied betwe= en the stations trying to make the QSO. Good luck!=C2=A0 I have collected screen shots and WSPR data for last night= 's session and will post a report later this evening. 73, John KB5NJD / WG2XIQ.. From: Fausto Coletti To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2015 8:42 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR =20 Hi Stefan, =C2=A0beyond the technical aspect that is certainly is the most = important thing, there are people like me who operated in the=C2=A0microwav= e bands and especially EME that, sometimes hunted a=C2=A0new one=C2=A0for m= onthsbefore being able to make the qso that, certainly does not scare me a = few hours of calling... Technology has made giant steps and, systems like W= SPR=C2=A0 for the study of the propagation, bring=C2=A0us to knowledge phen= omena that we would not have discovered otherwise but, the charm of an old = CW two way QSO is unsurpassed in my opinion. Surely it was an exceptional c= ondition that I do not think happen again many times during a year but, the= perseverance finally always pays. =C2=A073, Fausto =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DK7FC To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Sunday, November 01, = 2015 2:41 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR=20 Hi Fausto, Normal CW would have been possible last night! There were 90 decodes by FR5= ZX last night. The best reports from last night are: =20 | Timestamp | Call | MHz | SNR | Drift | Grid | Pwr | Reporter | RGrid | km= | az | | =C2=A02015-10-31 22:30=C2=A0 | =C2=A0PA0A=C2=A0 | =C2=A00.475725=C2=A0 | = =C2=A0-20=C2=A0 | =C2=A00=C2=A0 | =C2=A0JO33de=C2=A0 | =C2=A02=C2=A0 | =C2= =A0FR5ZX=C2=A0 | =C2=A0LG78pu=C2=A0 | =C2=A09511=C2=A0 | =C2=A0135=C2=A0 | | =C2=A02015-10-31 23:46=C2=A0 | =C2=A0DK7FC=C2=A0 | =C2=A00.475684=C2=A0 |= =C2=A0-12=C2=A0 | =C2=A00=C2=A0 | =C2=A0JN49ik=C2=A0 | =C2=A01=C2=A0 | =C2= =A0FR5ZX=C2=A0 | =C2=A0LG78pu=C2=A0 | =C2=A09095=C2=A0 | =C2=A0137=C2=A0 | | =C2=A02015-11-01 00:12=C2=A0 | =C2=A0DF6NM=C2=A0 | =C2=A00.475785=C2=A0 |= =C2=A0-20=C2=A0 | =C2=A00=C2=A0 | =C2=A0JN59nj=C2=A0 | =C2=A01=C2=A0 | =C2= =A0FR5ZX=C2=A0 | =C2=A0LG78pu=C2=A0 | =C2=A08974=C2=A0 | =C2=A0139=C2=A0 | | =C2=A02015-10-31 23:58=C2=A0 | =C2=A0DJ0ABR=C2=A0 | =C2=A00.475665=C2=A0 = | =C2=A0-25=C2=A0 | =C2=A00=C2=A0 | =C2=A0JN68nt=C2=A0 | =C2=A00.2=C2=A0 | = =C2=A0FR5ZX=C2=A0 | =C2=A0LG78pu=C2=A0 | =C2=A08830=C2=A0 | =C2=A0140=C2=A0= | | =C2=A02015-10-31 23:42=C2=A0 | =C2=A0DH5RAE=C2=A0 | =C2=A00.475753=C2=A0 = | =C2=A0-27=C2=A0 | =C2=A00=C2=A0 | =C2=A0JN68qv=C2=A0 | =C2=A00.5=C2=A0 | = =C2=A0FR5ZX=C2=A0 | =C2=A0LG78pu=C2=A0 | =C2=A08826=C2=A0 | =C2=A0141=C2=A0= | | =C2=A02015-10-31 23:12=C2=A0 | =C2=A0IZ7SLZ=C2=A0 | =C2=A00.475777=C2=A0 = | =C2=A0-27=C2=A0 | =C2=A00=C2=A0 | =C2=A0JN80nu=C2=A0 | =C2=A00.01=C2=A0 |= =C2=A0FR5ZX=C2=A0 | =C2=A0LG78pu=C2=A0 | =C2=A07941=C2=A0 | =C2=A0143=C2= =A0 | You know, a few weeks back i've tested the readability of a signal at -6 dB= and -16 dB. -6 dB was fine for a normal speed (100 Bpm) CW QSO. -16 dB was= barely audible, not fine for a QSO, maybe a call can be copied when repeat= ed a few times. So i think that -12 dB should be fine for a QSO at 60 Bpm a= nd some concentration... But it was just a short moment within 4 hours. Not= sure if someone want to call CQ for such a long time to make a "599tu" QSO= then :-) 73, Stefan PS: Could someone provide more statistical overview of last nights results? Am 01.11.2015 12:09, schrieb Fausto Coletti:=20 =20 Hi Stefan, =C2=A0 -14 dB !!! Virtually with 10 dB extra power you would g= et an audible CW signal...at 9000 Km WOW. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 73, Fausto IK4NMF Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2015.0.6173 / Database dei virus: 4455/10926 - Data di rilascio: = 01/11/2015 ------=_Part_478205_2088366568.1446390500961 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To take Fausto's comments a step furthe= r to real time application, over here we use  WSPR to determine the pr= opagation patterns, QSB and peaks and coordinate in real time for CW skeds = in the ON4KST chat.  When we see numbers -10 to -12 db S/N we know we = can make something happen usually.. better than -10 db means we can actuall= y chat and have usually have several meaningup exchanges.  WSPR is a v= ery good tool for these determinations. 

It can be an better solution than endless calli= ng if properly applied between the stations trying to make the QSO.

Good luck!  I have collec= ted screen shots and WSPR data for last night's session and will post a rep= ort later this evening.

73,

<= /div>
John KB5NJD / = WG2XIQ..
=

From: Fausto Coletti <faustocoletti@alice.it>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2015 8= :42 AM
Subject: Re:= LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR

Hi Stefan,
 
beyond=20 the= technical aspect that is certainly is=20 the most important thing, there=20 are people like me
who operated in the mi= crowave bands and especially<= /span> EME that, sometimes hunted a n= ew one for months
before being able to=20 mak= e the qso that, certainly does not scare me a few hours=20 of calling...=20
Technology has= made=20 giant steps and, s= ystems like WSPR  for the study of the propagation,
bring us to=20 kno= wledge phenomena that we wo= uld not have discovered otherwise but, the=20 charm of an=20
old CW two way QSO is unsurpassed in my opinion.=20
Surely it was an=20 exceptional condition that I do=20 not think h= appen again many times during = a year=20 = but,
the perseverance=20 finally always pays.=20
=  
73, Fausto=20
 
 
 


----- Original Message --= ---
From:=20 DK7FC=20
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 2:41=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF= =20 WSPR

Hi Fausto,

Normal CW would have been possible last=20 night! There were 90 decodes by FR5ZX last night. The best reports from l= ast=20 night are:

SNR= = =
TimestampCallMHzDrift<= /th>GridPwrReporterRGridkmaz
 2015-10-31 22:30  PA0A  0.475725  -20 &nb= sp;0  JO33de&= nbsp; 2  FR5ZX  LG78pu  9511  135 
 2015-10-31 23:46  DK7FC  0.475684  -12  0  JN49ik  1  FR5ZX  = ;LG78pu  909= 5  137 =
 2015-11= -01 00:12  DF= 6NM  0.47578= 5  -20 =  0  JN59nj  1  FR5ZX  LG78pu  8974  139 
 2015-10-31 23:58  DJ0ABR  0.475665  -25  0  JN68nt &nb= sp;0.2  FR5ZX=   LG78pu = ; 8830  140 
 2015-10-31 23:42&nb= sp; DH5RAE  0.475753  -27  0  JN68qv  0.5  FR5ZX  LG78pu  8826  141 
 2015-10-31 23:12  IZ7SLZ  0.475777  -27  0  = JN80nu  0.01=   FR5ZX =  LG78pu  7941  143 

You know, a few=20 weeks back i've tested the readability of a signal at -6 dB and -16 dB. -= 6 dB=20 was fine for a normal speed (100 Bpm) CW QSO. -16 dB was barely audible, = not=20 fine for a QSO, maybe a call can be copied when repeated a few times. So = i=20 think that -12 dB should be fine for a QSO at 60 Bpm and some concentrati= on...=20 But it was just a short moment within 4 hours. Not sure if someone want t= o=20 call CQ for such a long time to make a "599tu" QSO then :-)

73,=20 Stefan

PS: Could someone provide mor= e statistical overview of last=20 nights results?


<= br clear=3D"none">Am 01.11.2015 12:09, schrieb Fausto Coletti:=20
 
-14 dB !!!
Virtually with 10 dB extra power you=20 would get an audible CW signal.= ..at 9000 Km WOW.=20
 
 
73, Fausto=20 IK4NMF
Nessun virus nel=20 messaggio.
Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com<= br clear=3D"none">Versione: 2015.0.6173 / Database=20 dei virus: 4455/10926 - Data di rilascio:=20 01/11/2015


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